Where is the Cummins engine??? 6.4? - Page 7 - Diesel Forum

mike100 · 07-11-2005, 08:52 PM

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I was actually suprised how much room there was under the hood of the mustang. Looks like Ford could shove a V10 in there with ease! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img]

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been done by ford and by individuals..lots of hits on v10 mustang if u google it.
V10 motor trend article

superf350 · 07-11-2005, 10:46 PM

Dang that's pretty sweet. Sure hope Nancy don't see it though! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img]

560TURBO · 07-11-2005, 11:17 PM

DR EVIL,

You took the words right out of my mouth... each diesel has its place and application. Each works well and for the given space you gotta use what best fits. In pickups it is proven both designs work great. In OTR is is well proven that I6 dominate, but V's are still in use. It is foolish to say one is better than the other...

The fact of the matter is both are excellent engine designs and one is not necessarily better than the other just because some guy says this or that and all of a sudden he is the diesel god and we must all bow, listen, and follow. Sorry, but as the forum has taught many of us, we often find ourselves caught up in the moment of this diesel did this and you outta stay away from it, and this one did that and that is why you should choose this one over that one. Give me a break.

I apologize for some of the mistakes in displacements and not referencing turbo or non-turbo, I was in a hurry because my wife was going to shut down the PC on me if I didn't get off!

Also the IH D554-In TD15 crawlers
D691-TD18 crawlers in the 40's

The DTI817- was one solid built engine that was first developed in the 1950's and was used into the late 80's under Dresser and Dressta.
I did forget about the DTA360 and 408 binders, sorry.

MackE7-yes the 5.9L is a great engine, and it is great if you think the world of them. I love them too. But I'll take my binder, because that is me and that is what I love and because I own stock in Navistar. I was born a binder and will die a binder period...
If you want to compare apples to apples, then compare a DTA360 or DT361 to a 5.9L. Now that would be fun in my book.

I have had the pleasure to operate almost 90% of all IH diesel engines and am proud of the binder legacy and even more proud that it still thrives in my life today.

Yes I have operated the cummins 5.9 and 8.3 liters in the magnum and maxxum lines of CIH equipment. Good engines.
Happy posting

ktpauley · 07-12-2005, 04:07 AM

Heck, Gary, SVT stuffed a 427 or 429 (can't remember which) into a the same body style Mustang as Nancy's. According to John Colletti (SP) the Modular motor is the same width as the big block. Keith

navistar45 · 07-12-2005, 08:54 AM

well said 560 and evil. and though a bit off topic,if you want to compare the quality that goes into engines of the same size,but different brands,the 5.9 cummins and the 5.9 international are excellent examples.the 5.9 international engine[in terms of build quality] is superior in everyway.i made this assesment many months back.yes the 6bt cummins is a good engine,and very popular,a lot of the popularity is because of the fact,size,weight ratio.cummins builds engines not equipment,therefore there is no conflict between equipment builders,[ever seen a jd diesel in cat backhoe or dozer ?]what about a case diesel in a jd dozer or backhoe,or vise versa.the fact is as a company that builds only engines,you must seek out buyers for the product you build.i will say it again,yes the 6bt is a very good engine,but it in some cases has had problems along the way also,and yes there are better engine choices on the market,or have been over the years.personaly i like v8 diesels in pickups,they act for the most part like a gas engine in daily driveing conditions,but also perform like a diesel when it comes time to tow or work in general.i have owned v diesels in anything from a class 8 truck to a pickup,i do not question there reliability,if i know there reputation,the same applies for a inline 6....

Mwheeler · 07-12-2005, 08:46 PM

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"If that sucker would last in marine application I'd bet the 6.0 would also. Was the 7.3 ever used in marine application?"

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Yes I have seen them in some 36' shrimp trawlers at my cousin's charter boat dock.

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It doesn't matter if these engines were or weren't used in marine applications. The thing is that none of these engines will stand up and be trouble free like the Cummins 5.9.

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When my cousin had his top boat remodelled in 1993 he got rid of the 3 Cummins in it in favor of 2 3208 Turbo Cat's, he says it's got more power.

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The 7.3 was an OK engine.

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The 7.3 was a damn good engine. I've driven them with over 400k on all original parts, and they still had power like they were new.

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I don't know why Ford doesn't get Navistar to build a good I6 and stop making these stupid complicated, trouble prone engines.

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I-6's are irrelevant to this discussion, a 4 cylinder could do the job if someone put their mind to build one. Point is there are good ones, there are bad ones, and there are some that are in the middle.

ilovesteelies · 07-14-2005, 07:04 AM

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And don't tell me it is emissions because the 5.9 makes very similar power and doesn't use EGR, VGT, etc. And furthermore there are now lots of engines using EGR and VGT and they aren't having problems with EBVs, EGR valves and all that other stuff.

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Claptrap. Back this up with anything.

Tell us what these engines are and the problems they "aren't having".

The current 5.9 pollutes a lot more than the current 6.0.

Wait until 07, we'll see how reliable your I-6 cummins is once it's on level playing field.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

gcane · 07-14-2005, 08:25 AM

The cummins mhttp://www.cmdmarine.com/QSB425release.htmlarine model is up to 425hp

DUKES2FORDS · 07-17-2005, 12:57 PM

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The only problem with the 6L is that it doesn't make any torque below 2000 RPM.

For those that aren't familiar with ag/construction equipment, the engines need to be bulletproof, high torque, have good fuel economy and be nearly maintenance free.

Lets check how the 6L does. It certainly isn't bullet proof. It isn't a high torque engine. It is a high reving engine. It doesn't have good fuel economy and it requires a lot of maintenance. I wouldn't want a 6L in my tractor. I don't think it would work in a field tractor at all and that is why I don't think it is used in them. The 466 is used in some construction and ag equipment. The only industrial application I know of for a T444E is street sweepers and I know of customers who complain about them. "

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What about the IH version of the 6L? It's rated at 625ftlbs of TQ in IH trucks. Is that not "high torque"? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
Why don't you understand that these engines can be tuned for higher or different torque curves depending on the application (industrial, agricultural, OTR, etc.)????

IH makes great industrial engines used in everything from dump trucks to log skidders.

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"Ha ! Th 5.9 is used in equipment up to and over 200 HP. You need to take a closer look at modern tractors. They are very high performance machines. Cummins practically owns a lot of the market with the 5.9. It has proven to be a very tough, versatile engine."

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I see a lot more 8.3L Cummins used in farm equipment than 5.9's. I still see 5.9's in some backhoes, but over 200HP and the 8.3L is much more common. The 5.9L is overmatched in most medium duty situations. I've driven lots of 5.9L powered dumps, they suck on power when loaded......pedal to the metal all day long, four-ways "on" on every hill.

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"A diesel engine in a pickup truck has a holiday compared to a tractor. The duty cycle in a tractor is the highest of almost any application other than power generation. There is no ram air effect to assist with the cooling. The engine is always operating at high boost pressures. And they operate at fixed speeds (2000RPM) for thousands and thousands of hours."

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IH 9L V-8's ran like that for decades in IH tractors. The advantage of I-6's in tractors is as much in packaging as anything. I-6's fit the long nose profile of farm tractors better than wide V-8's.

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"re Cummins sucking the hind tit... I don't know what your metric is, but mine doesn't involve drag racing and making smoke. When I buy a $45,000 truck, I want an engine that will pull for 250,000 miles without any problems. That is priority #1. My truck can't be in the shop. I don't have time to deal with exhaust backpressure valves and twin turbos and crap like that. It might be fine for a "diesel enthusiast" to spend time on that sort of stuff, but I can't. "

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I agree, but don't you think that the rest of the D/C truck will need to be serviced many many times before 250K? If you're worried about "not having any problems" then you better start worrying more about the truck itself and less about the engine. The rest of the truck will start falling apart ~100K.

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"It has to start and run at full performance day in and day out for a long, long time."

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So what about lift pumps, Alternators, Power steering pumps, transmissions, brakes, etc.? Aren't they a cause of "problems", too?

From what I've seen, Fords have been more reliable in the past than Dodge trucks in terms of "other" parts. What difference does it make if I'm in the shop for a 6L headgasket and you're in the shop for death wobble, cracked frame, lift pump, etc.??? "downtime" is "downtime", right???????? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] You guys act as if your engine was touched by the hand of God, but it's like "who cares" about the rest of the truck?!?!?! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]

DOWNTIME IS DOWNTIME, NO MATTER WHAT ENGINE IT COMES WITH.

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"I really don't care if one engine is 10 HP less than another. All these engines will pull my loads at 65MPH, but which one is going to do it the easiest and last the longest doing it. From what I can tell of the 2005 engines, that engine is the Cummins."

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And the rest of the truck, I give the nod to Ford. So in the end, we'll probably have the same "downtime", but I'll have a faster truck with lots more payload, bigger cab and more features.

roofeditor · 07-17-2005, 05:38 PM

So what about lift pumps, Alternators, Power steering pumps, transmissions, brakes, etc.? Aren't they a cause of "problems", too?

From what I've seen, Fords have been more reliable in the past than Dodge trucks in terms of "other" parts. What difference does it make if I'm in the shop for a 6L headgasket and you're in the shop for death wobble, cracked frame, lift pump, etc.??? "downtime" is "downtime", right???????? You guys act as if your engine was touched by the hand of God, but it's like "who cares" about the rest of the truck?!?!?!

A little one sided don't you think? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]

BigDaddyT · 07-17-2005, 07:11 PM

My 98 dodge went in the shop one time before 100k other than normal pm. That truck made it to 130k on the first lift pump. My 99 dodge went in the shop twice before 100k other than pm. They all have their problems. They all have their good points. I never had a death wobble or a cracked frame and in truth Ive never met anyone who has either. I can point out a lot of problems with the ford but I dont have to. You guys know what its problems are and you accept it and deal with it. Just like the dodge guys do. Both trucks are rated about the same in quality. One doesnt stand out from the other except in their respective owners minds.
I wont even get into what I had to do with my 96 ford. Let me just say the 98 dodge was a big step up in quality. Say what you will. I had two good experiences. Im still a ford guy at heart but I dont disqualify other makes.

Wobblin-Goblin · 07-17-2005, 08:28 PM

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re Cummins sucking the hind tit... I don't know what your metric is, but mine doesn't involve drag racing and making smoke. When I buy a $45,000 truck, I want an engine that will pull for 250,000 miles without any problems. That is priority #1. My truck can't be in the shop. I don't have time to deal with exhaust backpressure valves and twin turbos and crap like that. It might be fine for a "diesel enthusiast" to spend time on that sort of stuff, but I can't.

I really don't care if one engine is 10 HP less than another. All these engines will pull my loads at 65MPH, but which one is going to do it the easiest and last the longest doing it. From what I can tell of the 2005 engines, that engine is the Cummins.

I think that Ford is kind of getting caught up in the performance diesel market niche. All you have to do is look on these boards and see how many people are interested in drag racing their diesels to see what I mean. Ford is catering to that. But that kind of power doesn't work well for the RVers and the work truck guys like me.

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Bravo! Well said! I agree on all counts!

For a while now I've been saying that it'd be nice if the manufacturers would sell diesels with 275hp and 550tq for us working, towing guys. My 7.3L is rated for 250/525 and my dad's Duramax is rated for 300/520. Based on how both trucks run and tow, I arrived at the 275/550 rating. The 300 horsepower of the Duramax can be too much at times, while the 250hp of my 7.3L is plenty adequate for most towing I do, every now and then I tow a heavier trailer and something in between my truck and the Duramax would be sufficient. The 550 lb/ft of torque rating would be a little more than either of our trucks, but still less than all three small diesels available right now.

Perhaps the Big Three could offer two different ratings? One for people who want reliability and/or economy and one for people who want to detonate their trucks by racing and beating the living crap out of the drivetrains?

Personally, I love my Super Duty and am sad that the magnificent '05-'06 trucks are still burdened with an engine so many people either hate or distrust.

GaryCrow · 07-18-2005, 04:05 AM

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I agree, but don't you think that the rest of the D/C truck will need to be serviced many many times before 250K? If you're worried about "not having any problems" then you better start worrying more about the truck itself and less about the engine. The rest of the truck will start falling apart ~100K.

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Really?

My 1998.5 dodge cummins has had two interior light bulb replacements, one headlight bulb, and the driver's door has been greased twice. No other work done on the dodge part in 312,000 miles. Truth be told I've had to do more work to the cummins part than the dodge part.

I had two Fords before this truck. Neither made it past 200,000 miles before they were breaking too much to make it worthwhile to fix.

The Dodge truck I own is a higher quality product than the two Fords I owned before it.

roofeditor · 07-18-2005, 07:22 AM

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I agree, but don't you think that the rest of the D/C truck will need to be serviced many many times before 250K? If you're worried about "not having any problems" then you better start worrying more about the truck itself and less about the engine. The rest of the truck will start falling apart ~100K.

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Really?

My 1998.5 dodge Cummins has had two interior light bulb replacements, one headlight bulb, and the driver's door has been greased twice. No other work done on the dodge part in 312,000 miles. Truth be told I've had to do more work to the Cummins part than the dodge part.

I had two Fords before this truck. Neither made it past 200,000 miles before they were breaking too much to make it worthwhile to fix.

The Dodge truck I own is a higher quality product than the two Fords I owned before it.

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I own both and my 98.5 dodge did go 200K + miles with very few problems, no cracked frame, original lift pump, original clutch, original brakes went 120K, original front end went about 180K then only ball joints replaced. For the life of me, I know this is a Ford site but where do people come up with this constant BS about other brands? They are all good, some better at some things and every brand gets a bad run once and a while like the early 6.0 that a lot of people had problems ( not for me) with.