Child Seat Install ? -- sort of long

[barrelhorses]

Our son is nearing 6 months old and the infant carrier/car base set up is getting too small for him. So we purchased two new convertible car seats (rear-facing until one year old, forward facing up to 40# and then it can be used as a booster seat). At any rate, I am installing these as rear-facing seats right now. The directions say to fully recline the seat and use a rolled up towel under the front of the seat if necessary to make the car seat lay back far enough so the baby won't be sitting too upright. Well I found that even after rolling up several towels under the front of the seat, the seat was still sitting too straight up. So I cut a piece of 2x4 and rolled it up in one of the towels. The seat now is a little more reclined, but still more upright than the marks on the seat indicate it should be. My next move would be either doubling the 2x4 or cutting a piece of 4x4. Have any of you all experienced this and what did you do about it? I just want to make sure my baby is comfortable and safe.

Thanks for any input.

[Silverlode]

I can't imagine how you could need 8" to make the seat fit properly. Something sound strange. Care to give the brand and model of the seat? I have a couple of seats like that. They both have an adjustable "foot" (for lack of a better term) at the rear base of the seat that folds up to aid in getting the proper angle of installation in a rear facing/infant scenario.

[sheepman]

A towel will work, but what my wife and I have found works the best for us, is a foam roll that we got I think, at babies r us. I found one their web site differnt then what we have. However, it looks like it will work better, we just use one that is completely round.

We did try using wood it left marks on the seats so we stopped. I guess if you wanted to you could wrap the wood block in felt.

Oh, one more thing you can't just use any foam, like the the round pool noddles there to soft and not DOT approved.
Best of luck!

Click here for car seat leveler

[barrelhorses]

Thanks for the replies and the info on the product from Babies'R'Us. Right now I have the 2x4 wrapped in a towel laying flatways on top of a couple of other rolled up towels. So all total right now, I probably have about 3" or less of leveling due to how much the towels compress when I push down and tighten up the LATCH belt (Equinox) or the seat belt (truck). I think another inch or so would make the car seat right with the world. I'll run into Babies'R'Us and check out the seat leveler.

If you take the bases off these seats, there is a "leg" that lowers to make the rear of the seat sit higher. This is not beneficial in this application but probably will be needed when the seat is turned around forward. The bases that we were using for the infant carrier that is being replaced had a leveling "leg" that was lowered to the fullest to keep the infant seat tilted back properly.

I've done forgot the brand of the car seats we bought (short-term memory already going....). We bought them at Babies'R'Us, though, and they were about the middle of the road as far as pricing goes.

[shelbyandadiesel]

Having done this three times, child seats are the most frustrating yet one of the most vital things you can do for your little ones. The fire dept. I work for does car seat fittings and checks, you could call your local FD and see if they do that.

I ended up taking my self and truck to Mary Bridge Childrens hospital for a seat check, (Tacoma WA area). Most childrens hospitals offer this service, and I have yet to hear of anyone charging for it.

Try a different brand, cause a good fit is vital. We did use the roll up towel, and the same seat fit everything from a 88 Saleen Mustang to a 03 Crew Cab Super Duty. Your fit just sounds a bit wrong. We did not pay premium dollar for our seats either.

The seats change ALL the time, as do the rules. I am thinking when my kids are 18 they will be big enough to go without a car seat.
Craig

[holstein05]

My wife and I used a Graco SafeSeat for our firstborn (16 months ago) We too found that we could never get the indicator to read a safe level. Even at the Inspection station our town offers, they were confused, as the seat looked and fit very well, but the indicator was not even close. Long story short, I ended up talking to an engineer at Graco and we resolved the problem.. or should I say, we agreed things were safe. I work in engineering and know that if you scream enough (or if your wife does) they will eventually get somebody who knows something on the phone!

Yes, one of the most important things we can do for our child, and very frustrating all at the same time... I guess it's gonna get worse before it gets better.. after all our baby is a girl.

[pigdog]

I used to install seats. I find that swim noodles cut to length work great if you can't get the angles right. Like was said before, do some research about who does installs in your area and take it to them.

Many fire departments do them or call the local hospital that delivers lots of kids and ask them if somebody does installs.

[barrelhorses]

You know that our hospital where our son was born delivers more babies each year than any other local hospital. However, when I asked the nurse on the maternity floor if there was anyone who would check the infant seat that I installed, she said they did not do that and some something about liability. At any rate, I know these car seats are secured properly, I just need to get the angel up a little bit more so my son's head doesn't flop forward.

[shelbyandadiesel]

I can do a bit of leg work with our dept. PIO and get some info if you would like, yes even Ohio. I am shocked that the hospital does not do that.
I have been on several auto accidents with kids where they were hurt or worse due to seats being installed incorrectly. One that sticks in my mind is the little guy liked to undo his buckle. It launched him out the side window when the Expedition rolled. He was OK laying beside the car seat, with the SUV next to him. He was in better shape then we were when we first got there and saw what happened.

[gnxtc2]

The Community Policing Division at your local PD should be able to help you with the child seat install. The CP guys at work always walk around with those swimming pool noodle things.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

[barrelhorses]

Thanks for all the offers and replies. And Shelby....I hope that I can turn the child seat around before my son has the dexterity to undo the buckles so I can keep an eye on him. For now, after reading your post, I'll be reaching back there every other minute to check his harness.

I'm confident that I have the seats installed securely and properly with the exception of my "engineering" (2x4s rolled in towels) to get the proper tilt. I'll be getting a couple of the car seat levelers from Babies'R'Us this week so that everything will be on the up and up. I am on good terms with the fire department where I work so I think I'll pay them a visit and have them check out my installation.

[SteveRacer]

The angle is important, but there are several other things that are just as important, perhaps more:

1. Make sure your ELR belts have been converted to ALR. Usually that means just pulling the belt completely out of the retractor, then letting it back in. Bottom line is the belt should lock with a quick jerk, not rely on the weighted ball to shift in an accident. Your owner's manual should have instructions on this. You can get one of those 'H' clips to do this if necessary ... sometimes they come clipped to the car seat plastic somewhere.

2. Get those belts *tight*. I always use foam and towels anyway, because the child seat eventually dents and mars leather if you don't. Plus, both vinyl and leather are too slippery. You need to build some "height" so the belts have something to cinch down. On some vehicles, the seat is so dished that even with the belts pulled tight, the seat just slides around. Not acceptable! It doesn't matter how many towels, 2x4s, noodles, or foam bits you use ... DOT rated or not. The key is getting that seat to become one with the vehicle. Imagine you are strapping a car down to a flatbed trailer. THAT is how it should be. Most all of my installations were "permanent", at least until the child grew out of the seat, so what I did was convert the center belts to ELR, jerk until the belt locked, and then clip the belt in through the seat still locked ... you have to put a knee in the child seat and some weight. The child seat is pulled in against the foam or towels, and there is enough tension on the ALR belt that it can't unlock.

Just make sure that if you use 2x4s or 4x4s or something heavy like that, it can't become a projectile in a crash.

2. Always use the center of rear seat, depending on how procreative you are. It sounds like you have one child (so far?! [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/whistle.gif[/img]) so your best bet is the center of the rear seat. It makes loading/unloading yet_again_even_more_difficult, but it's worth it in terms of overall safety.

3. When the child is old enough to face forward, be sure to dig out and use the tethers behind the rear seat. This is especially important if the center belt is only a lap belt, and has no shoulder component. Adjust this and get it tight as well.

In the end there should be zero forward movement, and very little side-to-side movement.

4. Assuming you have a great install, you also have to connect every part of the restraint harness, every time, and that too should be tight. That plastic clip thing that clips the shoulder belts together is very important. It's final location should be over the breastbone, not the stomach, and not the throat. My kid always moved that around so I tried to stay aware of it.

5. Always use the crotch stap. The child can "submarine" under the belts without it. It may sound silly, but I know well-meaning parents that didn't use it. Very dangerous. You gotta dig it out from underneath the poopy diapers [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/sick.gif[/img] and use it every time.

6. Once the child is clipped in, those straps need to be pulled TIGHT. I use to pull that thing until I saw my kid's eyes bulge, and then let it off just a touch. Granted, I've raced cars for a couple of decades, so I'm probably a little overzealous. But I am certain that most parents do not get the restraints tight enough. It needs to fit like a straight jacket, not a winter sweater. You should be able to put a few fingers underneath the chest straps when tight, but nothing more. It should be borderline uncomfortable for the child.

That may sound harsh, but I'ts how it should be. Everything needs to be tight. It's critical for the "ride down" from an impact, and the energy needs to be distributed into the seat belts -- which actually tear and melt to slow the body to a stop. It's the difference between being squished up against a wall, and being slammed into it.

7. (Shameless Plug) Buy Britax if you can afford it. Graco is no slouch either. I don't believe there are unsafe child seats manufactured out there, just improperly installed. But with Britax it's top of the line, and you get great features like a quickly removable liner/cushion (for cleaning... a constant challenge) and integrated sippy-cup holders which are a blessing as well. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img]

8. As the child grows, make certain the shoulder belts come out of the proper slots. The belts should come out just over the shoulders when the child is in place. A 90 degree angle is ideal. Slightly above is okay; but if the slots are below the shoulders, and the belt goes up and over, this is bad! This arrangement will cause compression of the spine in an impact. Another royal pain to adjust, as you have to completely remove the seat, but you probably will only do it 3 times until you buy the booster seats and use regular seatbelts.

Good luck. As I mentioned, I've raced cars a long time, have two toddler boys, and was the engineer responsible for Airbag and Restraint Systems for BMW of North America for a number of years. But don't take my word for it -- do your own research and by all means check with your community FD or PD for assistance.


HTH-

-steve

[holstein05]

Hey Steve,
Thanks for that great write up. I'm gonna be sharing some of that info with the wife. While we do everything you listed, we now know more about "why" they tell you to do it. thanks again.

You know what my favorite thing about my truck is? It's the fact that I know I am putting the family in one of the largest, heaviest trucks we can afford. It's not a catch all, but if I drive responsibly, then I have done all I can do to protect our greatest investments.

[barrelhorses]

Wow, SteveRacer, thanks for the input. Rest assured that when I put the seats in a vehicle, they are TIGHT and will not give way unless there is catastrophic failure of the seat belt (truck) or LATCH belt (car). I test the carseat before each use to make sure it has not loosened or shifted any. And I also make sure the harness straps (including the not-yet-poop-stained crotch strap) are snug.

I will not cut corners when it comes to my only child's safety. My wife and I tried [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img] to have a child for about 10 years, even using some specialists unsuccessfully, before this little surprise came along. He's absolutely the best!

[shelbyandadiesel]

Steve had a great write up! I totally agree with the knee in the child seat for securing. I used to cringe when my wife or myself did that, and then I realized what we were doing was correct. REEF ON IT! None of the seats have ever shown any permanant marking from having car seats in them. I don't care if it did or not, they would be reefed down just the same.

Don't worry too much about the little guy playing with the buckle. Like anything else, train them not to do it, and they won't, for the most part. (Check on them of course, like you mentioned.)

Another thing, when there is no kid in the car seat, belt the seat down, or take it out of the vehicle. If you were to get in an auto accident, that would be a projectile flying around the inside of your truck, which could nail you in the head. Last Summer, a young guy got rear ended at a metered on ramp in the Kent WA area, a lose speaker flew from the rear package tray, hit him in the neck area, and he is paralyzed. No need to be paranoid, just safe.

Regards, Craig