Do we have any Parliamentarians in the house?

[Larry S.]

I am president of a land-owners association and will soon be presiding at my first Annual Association Meeting. We have one member that has been a trouble maker for the past few years and last year he totally wiped out the meeting. We have been a relatively laid back and informal organization until this guy came along. I feel I need to keep control and follow Robert's Rules of Order as best I can. My question is related to non-secret voting. We do a lot of voting by raise of hand. I will be chair of the meeting and according to Robert's Rules I cannot vote in a non secret ballot. I know I will be receiving the proxy vote of several members and am in a quandary over how I handle these proxies. I cannot find anything in Robert's Rules about how to vote the proxies I will be holding. If I read the rules correctly I cannot vote the proxies unless I make all votes as secret ballot. I can do this but it will be very time consuming and the membership probably won't be happy. What is the proper procedure for voting proxies assigned to the chair? BTW: In the past the chair of our meetings did vote, the only restriction on the chair was; he could not make a motion.

[johnm]

where to start. i was pres for 3 years and found that this can be really stickey and possibly have legal ramifications if it isnt done correctly. roberts rules are the last thing you should worry about. RR has nothing to do with the legal ramifications.

do you have a copy of the state laws covering commonly held property?

does the state have an ombudsman for homeowners assocaions?

do you have a copy of the CC n R's?

does your association have a lawyer on retainer?

do you have a property manager?

what is the ratio of owner lived in to rental units?

how do you (if you do) solicit proxies?

have you identified the right thinking residents vs the idiots that are against everything?

mayby you should PM me with the ansers and we can type back and forth.

johnm

[Band_Member]

As the president of a 501(c)(3) I'd say you have a right to run your organization's meeting orderly and peacefully.

At the open of your next meeting lay down the rule right after the Pledge of Allegiance. Announce that you are all here to gather orderly and peacefully and anyone who is disruptive will be asked to leave immediately. Anyone who is asked to leave the meeting and refuses will result in an adjournment of the meeting until such time that the individual leaves or if necessary a call will be made and they will be escorted out by the local constabulary. That should work. Expect your membership to back you up and;

Check all weapons at the door before the meeting [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

[short_stuff]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Band_Member</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Check all weapons at the door before the meeting [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img] </div></div>

Agreed! Might have to have a couple of security personnel availble to frisk everyone for concealed weapons. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img]

Seriously, you should follow the board's voting direction to vote the proxies. This leaves you out of the loop, unless you need to be called upon as a tie breaker. I am also president of our HOA. I also think you should set the ground rules before you open the meeting, and allow anyone that cannot abide by the ground rules to leave before the meeting starts. Then, there are no surprises if someone gets out of line after the meeting has started. Spirited meeting or not, people should behave as adults in a civilized manner. The problem I would have if you had to get the local police/sheriff/constable involved to escort an unruly attendant out of the meeting is that you are all neighbors. I guess we have it easy because things have run so smoothly in our subdivision that our annual meetings are small and manageable. We have board meetings every other month, which the public is invited to attend if they have a pressing matter that needs to be discussed, but even those meetings are pretty mundane. The attitude here is 'Out of sight, Out of mind'.
Report back and let us know how the meeting turns out. I'd be curious how everything turns out. Also, remember that you are in control of the meeting. If you have to abrutly adjourn the meeting, let it be known in the meeting minutes that the meeting was adjourned as a result of an impasse with one or more attendees. I hope your board has a property management company looking after things for you, so that you have a proper director's insurance policy to cover you in the event of a lawsuit threat. Also, make sure you trust the person taking the meeting minutes. Nothing worse than having incomplete or non-factual information showing up in the meeting notes.

short_stuff

[Larry S.]

PM sent John.

Shortstuff: <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seriously, you should follow the board's voting direction to vote the proxies. </div></div>
This is the Membership Annual Meeting where the members do the voting. The Board does not solicit proxies. I am sufficiently popular that I am sure I will be assigned several proxies to vote for individual members. It is how I handle the votes that members have assigned to me that concerns me.

I have set down the rules of the meeting at all Board meetings and will do the same at the Membership Annual Meeting. The rules will be different due to the size of the meeting.

[Riggodeaux]

State law, State law, State law - and the bylaws of the HOA. Suggest you check with someone active in the real estate section listed with the Colorado State Bar Association after you have reviewed the bylaws if the HOA doesn't have lawyer already retained. Mandatory disclosure: I'm not giving legal advice, just suggesting that you get it from someone competent to give it.

[short_stuff]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Larry S.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">PM sent John.

Shortstuff: <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seriously, you should follow the board's voting direction to vote the proxies. </div></div>
This is the Membership Annual Meeting where the members do the voting. The Board does not solicit proxies. I am sufficiently popular that I am sure I will be assigned several proxies to vote for individual members. It is how I handle the votes that members have assigned to me that concerns me. </div></div>

I guess it depends on the wording of the proxy. If it allows their vote to go whatever the president (or board) votes, then vote the way you think it should be voted. If the proxy is worded in such a way that the vote goes to the majority of tabulated votes, then that is the way the votes should be counted. At our annual meeting, I vote the proxies according to what the majority of the vote is. I think your bigger concern is the person (or group) that tries to upstage your control of the meeting.
You didn't state whether your association has a management company to work with or not. I rely a lot on our management company to respond to any legal issues (using their legal counsel). Another reason to use a management company is that it keeps issues between property owners from getting personal. I depend on the management company to be knowledgeable about current HOA rules and regulations, and to keep us from getting into situations that we can't get out of. just my .02 cents worth.

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[johnm]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ... I vote the proxies according to what the majority of the vote is. I think your bigger concern is the person (or group) that tries to upstage your control of the meeting </div></div>

in nevada that is not a legal vote. the proxies must have the same ballot as the others use and the one submitting the proxie must make their own selection. we had to revote after the lawyers got done.

your adjenda should have all issues being voted on and if the adjenda states so you can have some discussion on the issues, but again proxies must make up their mind ahead of time. we were required by bylaws to send out the adjenda and issues 30 days ahead of the vote for annual meeting only. the letter contained for and against summeries of each issue and a proxie ballot. that way there could be no collusion and votes were not swayed by the loud mouths. some people think that the louder they talk and the more swear words they use that it makes them right. this eliminated that. also, all proxies were required to arrive in a sealed envelope and opened in front of everyone and tallied.

good luck...