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What am I doing wrong with this set-up.............
Wiring generator into my garage. I have the 220 outlet on the generator wired into a 220 breaker in my panel as a backfeed. For some reason I am popping the breaker on the generator as soon as it starts.
I have the feed wires into the breaker correctly and the grounds wired correctly, but it still pops the generator breaker?
The garage is isolated from the house. I am wondering if the generator is seing a wierd ground and tripping? Any thoughts on this?
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1996 F-250 extended cab long box five speed. Home made Tymar, 203 Stat, 60 gal in bed fuel cell, 315/75's, no muffler, ebpv welded open 3" to 3" DP, Babies. 290K, still chugging, and still smoking when cold.
UPDATED 8/1/08 Replace so far. 1 LUK flywheel+clutch, 2 thermostats, 2 set of brakes, 1 set of calipers, 5 CPS, 3 sets of tires, 2 Transfer pumps, 1 Injector modual, 1 Computer, 2 Alt, 2 sets of batteries, 1 Water pump, 6 Belts, 1 PS hose, 2 Sets ball joints, 2 set u-joints, 2 carrier bearing, 2 Speed sensors, 1 oil pres sender, 1 temp sender, 4 sets of e-break cables, 1 front fuel tank, 2 rear fuel tanks, 2 set of glow plugs, 6 Glow plug relays, Oil galley o-rings, Turbo pedistal o-rings, EBPV o-rings, 3 sets of Injector O-rings, 1 Vac-pump, 1 new carpet.Total $$$ in repairs v/s miles driven = 3.0 cents per mile. Add fuel to that it jumps to 14.8 cents per mile over the life of the truck.
Not to miss the obvious--is your main disconnect off?
Then turn all of the other breakers off except for your generator, restart, see if it keeps connected with no load beyond the breaker box. Keeping the disconnect off, gradually add your other breakers back to see which circuit is messing with the genset.
FWIW, I setup my genset into a subpanel (6 circuit, Conneticut Electric - mfg). This setup eliminates any backfeed into the street feed - a very, very dangerous situation could result - either w/ the genset or a utility line worker on the pole.
My 6 circuits are divided as follows: #1 - kitchen reefer, #2 - family room reefer, #3 - gas boiler, #4 - garage lights, #5 & #6 - main floor lights.
I start up the genset, wait 15 - 30 secs for genset to stabilize, then I throw on #1, then #2, #3, followed by #4,5, & #6. the 6 breagers are switched from street side to "off" (mid position) to genset side. This eliminates any backfeeding issues dealing w/ the street to genset and back again.
In your current setup, I would also look into the possibility of a bad genset breaker.
Hopes this helps,
butchcassidy1
I
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2000 F250, 2WD, XLT,(AKA "THE DINOSAUR RELIC") - Only used when I can afford to fill the tank, otherwise it sits in the yard and I now carpool or take the bike. Not a daily driver for me!!!
I am not connected to the street when I try to use. I will be the only one that ever tries to use the generator so I know the process and steps. If and when I move all it takes is three screws and the cord is gone. I know about backfeeding the street line.
I was wondering about the gen set breaker, but we were using the 220 outlet last summer. I guess the winter could have done something?
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1996 F-250 extended cab long box five speed. Home made Tymar, 203 Stat, 60 gal in bed fuel cell, 315/75's, no muffler, ebpv welded open 3" to 3" DP, Babies. 290K, still chugging, and still smoking when cold.
UPDATED 8/1/08 Replace so far. 1 LUK flywheel+clutch, 2 thermostats, 2 set of brakes, 1 set of calipers, 5 CPS, 3 sets of tires, 2 Transfer pumps, 1 Injector modual, 1 Computer, 2 Alt, 2 sets of batteries, 1 Water pump, 6 Belts, 1 PS hose, 2 Sets ball joints, 2 set u-joints, 2 carrier bearing, 2 Speed sensors, 1 oil pres sender, 1 temp sender, 4 sets of e-break cables, 1 front fuel tank, 2 rear fuel tanks, 2 set of glow plugs, 6 Glow plug relays, Oil galley o-rings, Turbo pedistal o-rings, EBPV o-rings, 3 sets of Injector O-rings, 1 Vac-pump, 1 new carpet.Total $$$ in repairs v/s miles driven = 3.0 cents per mile. Add fuel to that it jumps to 14.8 cents per mile over the life of the truck.
I will be back at camp in two weekends. I thought I tried running with no load, but I will make sure to have everything off.
If all breakers are off and it still trips, but I am able to hard wire a single piece of equipment what am I looking at?
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1996 F-250 extended cab long box five speed. Home made Tymar, 203 Stat, 60 gal in bed fuel cell, 315/75's, no muffler, ebpv welded open 3" to 3" DP, Babies. 290K, still chugging, and still smoking when cold.
UPDATED 8/1/08 Replace so far. 1 LUK flywheel+clutch, 2 thermostats, 2 set of brakes, 1 set of calipers, 5 CPS, 3 sets of tires, 2 Transfer pumps, 1 Injector modual, 1 Computer, 2 Alt, 2 sets of batteries, 1 Water pump, 6 Belts, 1 PS hose, 2 Sets ball joints, 2 set u-joints, 2 carrier bearing, 2 Speed sensors, 1 oil pres sender, 1 temp sender, 4 sets of e-break cables, 1 front fuel tank, 2 rear fuel tanks, 2 set of glow plugs, 6 Glow plug relays, Oil galley o-rings, Turbo pedistal o-rings, EBPV o-rings, 3 sets of Injector O-rings, 1 Vac-pump, 1 new carpet.Total $$$ in repairs v/s miles driven = 3.0 cents per mile. Add fuel to that it jumps to 14.8 cents per mile over the life of the truck.
I would start looking into internal shorts that could be causing the breaker to trip. Rodents (mice, etc) get into my home genset and make a mess.
They have chewed thru the wire insulation when building a nest!!.
I ended up repairing the insulation and blocking off all areas of eggress for the rodents. Now the genset works fine, but I still inspect the genset a couple times a year for infestations.
Hopes this helps,
butchcassidy1
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2000 F250, 2WD, XLT,(AKA "THE DINOSAUR RELIC") - Only used when I can afford to fill the tank, otherwise it sits in the yard and I now carpool or take the bike. Not a daily driver for me!!!
I fixed it, but I am not a electrican so I am not sure why I fixed it.
I reused an old box and breakers in the garage from my remodel of the house.
I have four wires comming into the panel two going to ground and two carring the load. The load wires are split to each side of the panel.
The 220 breaker I had wired in was on one leg and it was tripping the generator. For kicks I moved the breaker so each side was on one leg of the feed. If I am explaining it correctly I split the breaker between both sides of the panel splitting each side of the breaker to the individual feeds.
Now everything works perfect?
I get the possibility of supplying 220 to one leg, but when you need 220 you just take two breakers so I am a little confused by this? Is there a layman explination?
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1996 F-250 extended cab long box five speed. Home made Tymar, 203 Stat, 60 gal in bed fuel cell, 315/75's, no muffler, ebpv welded open 3" to 3" DP, Babies. 290K, still chugging, and still smoking when cold.
UPDATED 8/1/08 Replace so far. 1 LUK flywheel+clutch, 2 thermostats, 2 set of brakes, 1 set of calipers, 5 CPS, 3 sets of tires, 2 Transfer pumps, 1 Injector modual, 1 Computer, 2 Alt, 2 sets of batteries, 1 Water pump, 6 Belts, 1 PS hose, 2 Sets ball joints, 2 set u-joints, 2 carrier bearing, 2 Speed sensors, 1 oil pres sender, 1 temp sender, 4 sets of e-break cables, 1 front fuel tank, 2 rear fuel tanks, 2 set of glow plugs, 6 Glow plug relays, Oil galley o-rings, Turbo pedistal o-rings, EBPV o-rings, 3 sets of Injector O-rings, 1 Vac-pump, 1 new carpet.Total $$$ in repairs v/s miles driven = 3.0 cents per mile. Add fuel to that it jumps to 14.8 cents per mile over the life of the truck.
The standard feed for 220volts is two legs of 110v. So the 4 wire feed that you had was two legs of 110v and a neutral and a grounded wire. So I believe that the way that you had if wired at first was a direct short of the two 110 volt legs if that makes sense to you.
Jim
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96 F250 PS XLT 4X4 long box, 5sp,4.10, manual hubs,pyro+boost guages,Dark Toumaline, add a leaf,Dale's TYMAR,and HX hose, downpipe, coolant filter with coolant eye
I am not connected to the street when I try to use. I will be the only one that ever tries to use the generator so I know the process and steps. If and when I move all it takes is three screws and the cord is gone. I know about backfeeding the street line.
As a licensed electrician, I will tell you that your hook up is not safe and does not comply with the National Electrical Code. Yes, it may work but all it will take is one mistake and the cost of an approved transfer switch that is required and a qualified electrician to hook it up will disappear quite rapidly.
Jim
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2001, F250 4x4, CC, Auto; Mobil 1 in transfer case&Trans.; Frantz Bypass Filter; "Hutch" fuel mods; Sonnax/Tricum mod; 4" Exhaust, 30" MagnaFlow; Attitude in A-Pillar and tranny gauge in Dash; AIS; EASE Diagnostics; Reese Slider Hitch; Fr Rotors, Cryo Treated&Slotted by ART.
... two legs of 110v and a neutral and a grounded wire. ...
Actually, it's two hots, a grounded (white) conductor and a grounding (green) conductor.
Residential 2-phase 120/240 V circuits don't have a neutral conductor. A conductor can only be neutral (no current flowing) in balanced polyphase circuits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkEkberg
... I am not an electrican ... I am a little confused by this ...
That, sir, is abundantly clear. You need to get a qualified electrician or electrical engineer ON SITE to figure out what's going on.
Until you do, turn everything off and red-tag it before you kill someone.
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Douglas Campbell [drcampbell ot engineer dat kahm]
November 5, 2008: The fat lady sang. Back to actually working for a living.
1986 Isuzu P'up, 177,673.8 miles. Hella headlights, (highly recommended) DOT C-2 back end. (also recommended) R-12 air conditioner converted to R-406a. 4.1:1 rear axle converted to 3.4:1.
9/22/2007, age 21: Still running well when reluctantly sent away for reincarnation, due to body & frame rust.
Last edited by drcampbell : 07-17-2008 at 11:05 AM.
I believe that the way that you had if wired at first was a direct short of the two 110 volt legs if that makes sense to you.
I guess maybe, but on a 110 line if you want 220 you pull two legs off it. I guess it is different going backwards?
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1996 F-250 extended cab long box five speed. Home made Tymar, 203 Stat, 60 gal in bed fuel cell, 315/75's, no muffler, ebpv welded open 3" to 3" DP, Babies. 290K, still chugging, and still smoking when cold.
UPDATED 8/1/08 Replace so far. 1 LUK flywheel+clutch, 2 thermostats, 2 set of brakes, 1 set of calipers, 5 CPS, 3 sets of tires, 2 Transfer pumps, 1 Injector modual, 1 Computer, 2 Alt, 2 sets of batteries, 1 Water pump, 6 Belts, 1 PS hose, 2 Sets ball joints, 2 set u-joints, 2 carrier bearing, 2 Speed sensors, 1 oil pres sender, 1 temp sender, 4 sets of e-break cables, 1 front fuel tank, 2 rear fuel tanks, 2 set of glow plugs, 6 Glow plug relays, Oil galley o-rings, Turbo pedistal o-rings, EBPV o-rings, 3 sets of Injector O-rings, 1 Vac-pump, 1 new carpet.Total $$$ in repairs v/s miles driven = 3.0 cents per mile. Add fuel to that it jumps to 14.8 cents per mile over the life of the truck.
The feed comming from the house is a 4 wire set-up, two feed wires, one to ground in the house and a redundand gound at the garage. On 220 you are correct. Two hots with a ground.
I understand people being afraid of the unknown, but wiring is not rocket science. I have wired my entire house learning as I go. I had to test to see what circuits went where because I moved the panel. Had to figure out 3 and 4 way switches. Had a few sparks here and there because having to have light while I was wiring said switches. Added switches to existing lights, and fixed many unsafe things from the previous owner.
I did have a certified electrician take a look at what I did around the panel and in the basement when I was about 70% done. He was very satisified with my work.
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1996 F-250 extended cab long box five speed. Home made Tymar, 203 Stat, 60 gal in bed fuel cell, 315/75's, no muffler, ebpv welded open 3" to 3" DP, Babies. 290K, still chugging, and still smoking when cold.
UPDATED 8/1/08 Replace so far. 1 LUK flywheel+clutch, 2 thermostats, 2 set of brakes, 1 set of calipers, 5 CPS, 3 sets of tires, 2 Transfer pumps, 1 Injector modual, 1 Computer, 2 Alt, 2 sets of batteries, 1 Water pump, 6 Belts, 1 PS hose, 2 Sets ball joints, 2 set u-joints, 2 carrier bearing, 2 Speed sensors, 1 oil pres sender, 1 temp sender, 4 sets of e-break cables, 1 front fuel tank, 2 rear fuel tanks, 2 set of glow plugs, 6 Glow plug relays, Oil galley o-rings, Turbo pedistal o-rings, EBPV o-rings, 3 sets of Injector O-rings, 1 Vac-pump, 1 new carpet.Total $$$ in repairs v/s miles driven = 3.0 cents per mile. Add fuel to that it jumps to 14.8 cents per mile over the life of the truck.
The feed comming from the house is a 4 wire set-up, two feed wires, one to ground in the house and a redundand gound at the garage. On 220 you are correct. Two hots with a ground.
I understand people being afraid of the unknown, but wiring is not rocket science.
What I see here in your posting is one of the reasons I refuse to help a "do it yourselfer" anymore. Your use of the term redundant ground, is not not a true definition for that conductor. It most assuredly is not a redundant ground. I have found that I can tell or teach someone just how to do something but that person is untrained in the language of the trade. More often than not, I can tell someone exactly how to do something and it will get done wrong and in a way that could cause an injury or fire because of the misunderstanding.
Your statement of not being rocket science is an insult to the electrical trade. I realize you may think any dodo can do the work but I have been on many a service call where the so called electrician or home owner's work had to be redone. Realize that an approved apprenticeship to become an electrician takes 4 years and requires an intensive state or local test to be liesenced to do electrical work.
Perhaps your view of an electrician is tainted a bit from your view of a few trunk slammer contractors that are around. (also called handy men) Some of the smartest people I know are electricians. House wiring is a very small part of electrical work but if done wrong can have some of the most devistating concequences of the trade.
Please take my advice and get a licensed electrician to do the work for you.
Jim
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2001, F250 4x4, CC, Auto; Mobil 1 in transfer case&Trans.; Frantz Bypass Filter; "Hutch" fuel mods; Sonnax/Tricum mod; 4" Exhaust, 30" MagnaFlow; Attitude in A-Pillar and tranny gauge in Dash; AIS; EASE Diagnostics; Reese Slider Hitch; Fr Rotors, Cryo Treated&Slotted by ART.
With your logic I should not fix my own car, renovate my house, do any improvement of any kind without someone who is trained to do so. I am not a trained architec, but I have designed my own garage and additions very well. I am not certified to install a septic system, but I was able to find out what I needed from the inspector and did a quality repair job which then was accepted by the local inspector. I am not a electrical engineer, nor will I ever profess to be, but I can test for a faulty circuit and repair it on a radio or tv. Had to fix the connection on the antena on my stereo last weekend.
There are many intelligent people out there who do not need official training in order to do a quality job. In my opinion there are specific programs (plumbing, h-vac, electrician, mechanic, carpenter) for people that can only achieve this level of education. If someone chooses this level of education, but is capeable of much more that is thier choice. Wait they better not have any hobbies that need professional instalations.
You are correct, you are not helping with the problem at all. I hear your concerns, but I do not agree with them due to the fact I am comfortable in learning. You have chosen to prevent me from learning.
That being said I request you not reply any further. Thank-you
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1996 F-250 extended cab long box five speed. Home made Tymar, 203 Stat, 60 gal in bed fuel cell, 315/75's, no muffler, ebpv welded open 3" to 3" DP, Babies. 290K, still chugging, and still smoking when cold.
UPDATED 8/1/08 Replace so far. 1 LUK flywheel+clutch, 2 thermostats, 2 set of brakes, 1 set of calipers, 5 CPS, 3 sets of tires, 2 Transfer pumps, 1 Injector modual, 1 Computer, 2 Alt, 2 sets of batteries, 1 Water pump, 6 Belts, 1 PS hose, 2 Sets ball joints, 2 set u-joints, 2 carrier bearing, 2 Speed sensors, 1 oil pres sender, 1 temp sender, 4 sets of e-break cables, 1 front fuel tank, 2 rear fuel tanks, 2 set of glow plugs, 6 Glow plug relays, Oil galley o-rings, Turbo pedistal o-rings, EBPV o-rings, 3 sets of Injector O-rings, 1 Vac-pump, 1 new carpet.Total $$$ in repairs v/s miles driven = 3.0 cents per mile. Add fuel to that it jumps to 14.8 cents per mile over the life of the truck.
That's why I said "qualified", not "certified" or "licensed".
The larger point is that you need to get a qualified person ON SITE to help you with the other 30% of your wiring. What you're doing is hazardous to other people - potentially fatal - and in direct violation of the National Electrical Code.
Frankly, if you were putting only your own arrogant self at risk, I'd be very tempted to say "Go for it!" (except that it would violate my professional engineer's oath to first protect & promote the public health & safety) But you're not. You're setting up the circumstances for a utility-line electrician to be killed.
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Douglas Campbell [drcampbell ot engineer dat kahm]
November 5, 2008: The fat lady sang. Back to actually working for a living.
1986 Isuzu P'up, 177,673.8 miles. Hella headlights, (highly recommended) DOT C-2 back end. (also recommended) R-12 air conditioner converted to R-406a. 4.1:1 rear axle converted to 3.4:1.
9/22/2007, age 21: Still running well when reluctantly sent away for reincarnation, due to body & frame rust.
Last edited by drcampbell : 07-20-2008 at 10:02 PM.
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