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Old 12-15-2008, 05:21 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Kerosene vs dyed kerosene

I have been trying to find out the difference between the 2, for a month ,,I finaly ordered the died (was told by the vendor ) the only difference is the dye ,,& was assure that I wouldn't notice a difference in the smoke or smell ...

Well, the dyed stinks ,,

the only info available on the net ,was a bit to technical & didn't address the one thing I wanted to know...

Any info would be helpful ...
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Old 12-15-2008, 05:35 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The dye should be the only difference. I have heard from other people that it seems to smell more and doesn't seem to burn as clean. I believe that some kerosene appliances require the clear version. They actually have brought back the clear in some areas around my house because of the omish. The dyed kero coked up their lanterns too fast and some use kero space heaters for a supplemental heat source.
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Old 12-15-2008, 06:36 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by macmaniac1 View Post
The dye should be the only difference. I have heard from other people that it seems to smell more and doesn't seem to burn as clean. I believe that some kerosene appliances require the clear version. They actually have brought back the clear in some areas around my house because of the omish. The dyed kero coked up their lanterns too fast and some use kero space heaters for a supplemental heat source.
Thanks ,,,


I'm concerned they may have sold me fuel oil ,or offroad diesel...
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Old 12-15-2008, 07:15 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks ,,,


I'm concerned they may have sold me fuel oil ,or offroad diesel...
That's what I was thinking.
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Old 12-15-2008, 09:51 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Kerosene and Diesel #1 are the same thing. Identical. The dye probably means that the road tax has not been paid, so you cannot burn it in a licensed vehicle that can be driven on the street.

There are two different shades of red. One is IRS red, and it means the fuel has not been taxed. The other is EPA red, and that means the fuel contains too much sulphur to be used in an on-the-road vehicle. Either color of red is illegal to put in your diesel tank. If LEO catches you with even a hint of red in your fuel tank (or fuel filter), you've had it.

All politics is local. The Amish don't drive diesel-powered vehicles, so they may have a deal that allows refineries to make kerosene for them without either the tax or the dye. But for us ordinary taxpayers, don't get caught with red dye in your pickup's fuel tank.
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Old 12-16-2008, 08:24 AM   #6 (permalink)
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In the early years of my body work career (1975) or so ,,I heated my garage at home with fuel oil ,,not a very pleasant
odor ,,,but it got me by

Now ,,in the winter at my house ,my wife & I spend time out in the garage with the door open ,throwing the tennis ball for my dogs ,,I have a large heater that we have on when its very cold ,,I have been running it on clear kerosene from the gas station..I use a 55 gallon drum to store it , with a convenient hand crank pump to dispense it .

The problem was ,it was inconvenient to fill the barrel ,with the 2 foot long hose on the pump.

So I called my offroad supplier ,& had them deliver 170 gallons of kerosene..
I chose the non taxed fuel ,because I use it in the heater .

They told me ,,it was un taxed kero,,the same as I was using (that didn't stink) ,only it was dyed ,,& that makes it # 1 fuel oil.I already have 350 gallons of off road for my equipment & could have used that for the heater ,But I was concerned it would stink..

The fuel they delivered ,does not smell the same as the un-dyed that I have been getting at the pump for the last 4 years ,,

I would like to know why ...

BTW ,,all I use in the truck ,is the proper taxed fuel...
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Old 12-16-2008, 09:34 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
I'm concerned they may have sold me fuel oil ,or offroad diesel...
Fuel oil and #2 diesel are also the same thing. #2 diesel has a little bit more stringent requirements, but most refineries produce one product for both purposes.

I never heard of "#1 fuel oil", but #1 diesel and kerosene are the same thing.

#1 diesel is also called "winter diesel" because it has a lot lower cloud point than #2. Cloud point is the temp at which the diesel turns to jello and won't flow through a fuel system. In most of the northern half of the USA, the on-road diesel is a blend of #1 and #2 called "winter blend". In your area you probably have winter blend as well as straight #1 available.

Because of the sulphur restrictions in on-road diesel, some refineries may now be producing ultra-low sulphur on-road diesel as well as the less-expensive higher-sufphur fuel oil and kerosene. I know my local refinery doesn't produce any diesel or fuel oil or kerosene different than the current ultra-low sulphur requirements for on-road diesel, but other refineries might.

Diesel or fuel oil that stinks, whether #1 or #2, is probably high sulphur. The current production shouldn't be high sufphur, but last year and before that it was widely available for off-road use such as farm tractors and construction equipment.
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Old 12-16-2008, 11:42 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SmokeyWren
Cloud point is the temp at which the diesel turns to jello and won't flow through a fuel system.
Beware of the information you're getting here.

The cloud point is the temperature at which wax crystals first appear in a fuel sample that is cooled under ASTM test specifications.

The cloud point is the highest temperature used for for cold flow properties, and the pour point is the lowest. The low temperature flow test (LTFT) and the cold filter plugging point (CFPP) will be somewhere between the two. So the "temp at which the diesel turns to jello and won't flow through a fuel system" is way below the cloud point.

I don't know about Texas, but it's not uncommon up here for our PSD's to run with cloudy fuel during winter cold snaps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyWren
Kerosene and Diesel #1 are the same thing. Fuel oil and #2 diesel are also the same thing.
Only in the general sense that they all come from crude oil, and there are some tax differences.

Folks need to know that there are critical ASTM specifications that seperate internal combustion and non-internal combustion diesel fuels. These specificationscan can limit their interchangeability. For example, neither heating oil nor kerosene requires ASTM cetane or cloud point specs. Your vehicle's diesel fuel does. So make sure you ask someone smart at your refinery and distributor if they treat their kerosenes and heating oils the same as combustion engine fuels. Many don't.
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Old 12-16-2008, 06:42 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Kerosene is not available in ULS, so it is not being used to blend with diesel around here anymore. We can't even run off road equipment on LSD anymore - it's all supposed to be ULSD - even if sold without road tax. Kerosene, at least around here is all dyed red - we haven't had clear kerosene for years, The dye is potent - I find residue that has remained red inside burner tubes on oil furnaces. No doubt the dye has some effect on some appliances - especially those that aren't vented.
For kerosene lamps I now use paint thinner (not reducer!) it's clear and from what understand paint thinner is a more highly refined kerosene.
The later comments about waxing and gelling are correct - cloudy fuel will still flow. Gelled fuel will usually flow through a line but wax flakes accumulate and stop the flow of fuel through a filter.
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Old 12-22-2008, 04:48 PM   #10 (permalink)
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So ,Is the opinion, its the dye that stinks ?.....
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Old 12-23-2008, 10:31 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Folks need to know that there are critical ASTM specifications that seperate internal combustion and non-internal combustion diesel fuels......
Makes sense to me, good post by the way. We used to get two monthly fleet truck industry magazines at our shop and many times there'd be indepth articles on the makeup and R&D that went into diesel fuel. I can't see any fuel company adding their complex (and expensive?) diesel additive package to something designed to burn in a Coleman lamp.

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Beware of the information you're getting here.
You mean everything on internet forums is NOT true??
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Old 12-23-2008, 12:06 PM   #12 (permalink)
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For kerosene lamps I now use paint thinner (not reducer!) it's clear and from what understand paint thinner is a more highly refined kerosene.

Paint thinner is usually OMS (oderless mineral spirits), HIGHLY flammable and toxic too, do a search on paint thinners you just might want to use something else, most thinners are VERY flammable and highly toxic.

As far as I know none of the thinners are in the kerosene category, they are all solvents and/or aromatics......they are flammables, all of them.
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Old 12-23-2008, 03:37 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by action4478 View Post
So ,Is the opinion, its the dye that stinks ?.....
I would have to say its the dye. Few of my buddies heat their garages with kerosene and they all say the dyed stuff stinks more than the clear kerosene. Also have a buddy who burns nothing but on road diesel in his heaters and with the new stuff being ULS I think it stinks less than kerosene.
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Old 12-23-2008, 03:56 PM   #14 (permalink)
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and with the new stuff being ULS I think it stinks less than kerosene.
I'm, actually sorry to hear that ,,,diesel is now less than kerosene....
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Old 12-25-2008, 06:50 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Paint thinner is usually OMS (oderless mineral spirits), HIGHLY flammable and toxic too, do a search on paint thinners you just might want to use something else, most thinners are VERY flammable and highly toxic.

As far as I know none of the thinners are in the kerosene category, they are all solvents and/or aromatics......they are flammables, all of them.
Look here: B & H Lamps, Wicks and Fuel
from the link: "These large center draft lamps will burn kerosene, but they were actually designed to burn "low odor mineral spirits." The same "lamp fuel" is available today, but marked "Paint Thinner with Low Odor Mineral Spirits." ["Low Odor" then meant low sulfur content.] It works just as well in center draft Kosmos lamps with the #15 burner with flame spreader or an Aladdin lamp. Virtually no odor, no tar buildup, wicks seldom have to be trimmed, the flame is a nice bright white (see lamp above on the left), and it's less expensive than hardware store kerosene! It also stores extremely well. "
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