Other Technical QuestionsDiscussion of other technical topics. Please see the sticky post at the top of the thread listing for specific rules. The rules for this forum are more restrictive than they have been in the past.
We are havening a bit of a problem with someone at our dept. that feels that we can only climb a ladder truck at 60degrees or less. Anything more than that we need "fall protection". Like one would use in a construction setting. I am dang near positive that NO manufacture has a clip in system for fall protection on the way up the ladder, and we are to "clip in" only in certain circumstances.
The dept. I am with is new to ladder trucks, and we have recently consolidated with another dept. that has a 110 foot quint. We, (the larger dept) have a lot to learn about the truck, and the dept. personnel that had the ladder, for the most part are not at the station with the ladder.
My feeling is, "up ya go", and WA State L&I is good with that. By all means, we WILL follow what WA Sate L&I says, as EVERYONE GOES HOME, so no silly chances, and the heck with "Old School". Where in NFPA or WA State L&I does it say otherwise???? What do other fire depts. do? What it comes down to, is I am a bit hacked off about being read the riot act about this in front of several people. While I am a 9 year paid veteran, and have 12 years volunteer under my belt before that, you do not point this out(loudly) in front of other folks, both paid and volunteer. Do any of you folks climb at 70 degrees?
Thanks, Craig
__________________
03 F-250xlt 6.0, SOLD April 2010! Replaced by an 07 GMC Yukon XL, and a 99 F350 crew cab, long bed 4x4, 6 speed. 69 Shelby GT500, 428 Cobra Jet, 4 speed toploader.
67 Fairlane 500, 347 Stroker, AOD trans, 3.25 rear end... work in progress. I am looking for parts that I thought I had so carefully put away...............
Work "Truck" 110 foot, 1999 Spartan/ LTI quint, Detroit Series 60, Allison auto. Work "Engine" 06 Pierce Arrow, Detroit Series 60, 475 horse, Allison Auto. Work Medic unit, 08 E450 6.0 by Northstar.
do this use logic to stump him
ask this you do a roof job on a house is the ladder over 60 degrees?
can you name another ladder that is commonly used at less than 60 degrees?
and finally so why cannot we use our ladder over 60 degrees?
and to his response you say prove it
then if its set law he will be so poed that hell go find what you are looking for for u
but i see them over 60 all the time
call up your sisters and brothers in the city so see what they say they may be able to help out
__________________
88 F-250 body,550 rear frame setup, 7.3 idi, back up camera, class 5 bumper hitch welded to frame and gusseted, front mount hitch and off road lights,93 front clip, headache rack, 37" humvee tires, ac power converter,factory buckets from quadcab, power windows and locks,cobra 29 cb w/ 102" whip, high lift jack behind seat, toolbox for the junk, visor, running lights, huge front bumper, oba,
in progress western style mirrors, holset turbo, airhorns, and some other goodies
I spoke to other depts. and they all climb at 70 to 75 degrees often, a lot of times for "check off" to be assigned to the truck. Just because it is done, does not make it legal, but I am sure we are OK.
__________________
03 F-250xlt 6.0, SOLD April 2010! Replaced by an 07 GMC Yukon XL, and a 99 F350 crew cab, long bed 4x4, 6 speed. 69 Shelby GT500, 428 Cobra Jet, 4 speed toploader.
67 Fairlane 500, 347 Stroker, AOD trans, 3.25 rear end... work in progress. I am looking for parts that I thought I had so carefully put away...............
Work "Truck" 110 foot, 1999 Spartan/ LTI quint, Detroit Series 60, Allison auto. Work "Engine" 06 Pierce Arrow, Detroit Series 60, 475 horse, Allison Auto. Work Medic unit, 08 E450 6.0 by Northstar.
Sounds like someone read half an article about something unrelated. Call Federal OSHA and ask them about any regulations for for ladder truck climbing angles.
__________________
--------------------
Marc
2000 Excursion Ltd 2WD, Build Date 9/30/99, Oxford White, Medium Parchment Leather, 6 disk CD Changer, 3.73 LS, Magnum Deflecta-Shield, Vent Shades Ford Rear Air Deflector, AC Mod, Home Made Tymar, More to come sooner or later!
Let us put an end, once and for all, to this discussion of what a good man should be - and be one. -Marcus Aurelius-
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it, misdiagnosing it, and then misapplying the wrong remedies. -Groucho Marx-
We do climb at different angles but everone must have on PPE & ladder belt.For the entry level test (hiring test) it is set at 70*. We worked off my 105' Pierce for 9hrs.(of a 24hr shift) on a silo fire Saturday at 60*.Bad day but after 22yrs. you get used to it.
Thanks
__________________
2011 F-350 Dually S/C 4x4 Lariat PSD RED.
2010 RED Grand Sport Corvette RED
2007 28'G.N. 8012 Sundowner Sig. Series 3 Horse with L.Q.(Camper)
2001 16'G.N. Adam Red Stock Trailer(day rides)
2004 24'G.N. Flat Bed Trailer (Hay & Tractor Hauler)
2008 Kawaski Mule 3010 RED
2006 Honda Rancher 4X4 RED
2001 F-250 5.4 S/C 4X4 (Farm Truck)
1974 F-100 360 Auto (Under Const.)
1997 Kubota L-4200 4x4 Tractor (bushhoggin S.O.B.)
1996 Blazer 4x4 (Rain/Snow Car)
6 Quarter Horses
3-Dogs (1 Bl. lab, 1 weiner & 1 Jack Russell)
1- cat (wifes)
I am in the middle of teaching some new to the quint drivers. We have a 105' quint and I have read the IFSTA aerial operators hand book, and have not seen anything about a teather when climbing. I suppose if you wanted to you could fasten a pully at the top of the ladder and use two prusik's at the bottom of the ladder that are attached to a strong point. A few drawbacks to that are you will need about 220' of rope and it will only be able to be use for 1 person. You could also use just 100' of rope attached to the top and outfit each person with a gibbs, but then you have to mind that with one hand and that would that you only have one hand to hold on with.
__________________ 2002 F250 7.3 4X4 Super Crew Short Bed. Gloshift Gauges (volts, boost, EGT's) Scan Gauge, 3 Recon Big Rig Lights (front and sides), Line of Fire, Super Chips, 5" Diamond Eye Exhaust with 6" Chrome Tip, TYMAR Air Filter, 05 Factory Tow Mirrors, B&W Companion 5th wheel hitch, Firestone Ride-Rite air bags, Line X, Custom Upfitter Switches, Peak backup camera, Motorola CM300 vhf radio, Cobra 29 CB, 285/75 R 16's, Ambulance air compressor, 24" Grover Air Horn, AIC, Commando Alarm with remote start, & Turbo Timer . Pullin' a 2011 Keystone Cougar 328qbss, or a 2011 Glastron GT205 Run-a-bout.
DW like's the diesel so much I had to buy her one.
The "Baby Diesel" 2004 VW Jetta TDI. It's nice but it ain't my truck
I worked on our two 75' quints for over 5 years before promoting up to driver/engineer and I've climb it at all angles... Just depends on what needs to be reached and what angle it will take to reach it... And trust me we have couple buildings that you have climb the ladder pretty much close to straight up due to being 75'...
We don't have any SOP/SOG that tell us what the max angle to climb it at only that if your on the ladder you must wear full PPE and ladder belt unless your just checking it out then just ladder belt,gloves and helmet... Only time that i've ever clipped in was when working off the tip at fires working nozzle or taking windows out we have extra 6' rope that ties into the belt that give some freedom while working...
New hires here have to climb it at 75 degrees fully extended... Only downside that I can think of on higher angles is that it takes more effort to climb then at lower angle...
With set back being 1/4 of the used length of the ladder...that would mean a 75 degree climbing angle. This is the "standard" taught in Florida for ground ladders.
For ladder truck ops, everything I can find says between 70 and 80 degrees for optimal safe climbing angle. Below that, and with other things factored in, you could possibly overload the ladder, and cause a collapse (I do not know what ladder, how old, or when its last inspection was performed) I don't think 60 degrees will cause that.
I am a Ladder Captain, and will get the info you need. I'll be on Friday, so I'll try to have a definitive answer for you then.
FWIW....we have in the past, used a belay, for new recruits, climbing the 105 at 80 degrees, in full PPE including SCBA.
__________________ 2003 F-350 SD, 7.3 PSD, Auto, CC, LB, SRW, FX4, 4.10:1 Genuine Gear Ring and Pinions, Detroit Truetrac Differentials F&R, FabTech Ladder Bars, SuperChips 1705, Magnaflow 4" Exhaust, Ford AIS Air Cleaner, ISSPRO Boost, Trans, and EGT Guages, Kenwood DNX6160 with Nav & XM, Ford AIC, Brite Box, 203* T-Stat and Billet Housing, Tru-Cool 4739 MAX, ProComp StageII 4" Lift on Eagle 589's with 35x12.50x16.5 BFG AT KO's, Centramatics, WeatherGuard Toolbox, Rhino Liner, B&W Turnover w/Companion 5th Wheel Hitch & Firestone Ride Rite Airbags, PacBrake PRXB.
I checked with our Fire training office yesterday on our ladders about the climbing angles and such. In looking at the Operational Manuals for them they state 1000 lb dry and 500 pounds wet (flowing water 1000 GPM) at any extension or elevation. Our's our steel ladders...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I checked with our Fire training office yesterday on our ladders about the climbing angles and such. In looking at the Operational Manuals for them they state 1000 lb dry and 500 pounds wet (flowing water 1000 GPM) at any extension or elevation. Our's our steel ladders... </div></div>
Tip load....climbing angle is different, and will not be addressed in the Manufacturers Literature. But I hear you, as that is what I got from our Training Division.
__________________ 2003 F-350 SD, 7.3 PSD, Auto, CC, LB, SRW, FX4, 4.10:1 Genuine Gear Ring and Pinions, Detroit Truetrac Differentials F&R, FabTech Ladder Bars, SuperChips 1705, Magnaflow 4" Exhaust, Ford AIS Air Cleaner, ISSPRO Boost, Trans, and EGT Guages, Kenwood DNX6160 with Nav & XM, Ford AIC, Brite Box, 203* T-Stat and Billet Housing, Tru-Cool 4739 MAX, ProComp StageII 4" Lift on Eagle 589's with 35x12.50x16.5 BFG AT KO's, Centramatics, WeatherGuard Toolbox, Rhino Liner, B&W Turnover w/Companion 5th Wheel Hitch & Firestone Ride Rite Airbags, PacBrake PRXB.
If you were supposed to be clipped in when climbing the ladder, there would be a wire going the length of the ladder so you could clip in and stay clipped as you go up.
Our SOP is that if the aerial is moving either from tip controls or by the operator you should be clipped in (obviously the climbers are not moving when the ladder is in motion). Personally, when running around on a pitched roof in winter, I think it is nice to be tethered to the end of the ladder, but that is not mandated either. I don't believe that most fire departments follow OSHA rules on the fireground. NFPA is another matter, but I am almost certain they don't have rules about setting up "fall protection" when on the aerial.
The load limits on the other hand ARE well known, and are dependent upon the construction of the aerial truck and ladder. Ours can be below horizontal while flowing water with climbers on it. Some aerials are designed for weight to be put onto the building, while heavy ones like ours are fully self supporting, and we should not lean them against the structure.
Will the state come in and do training? Sounds like outside expertise might be taken better than local expertise no matter how correct.
The AutoGuide.com network consists of the largest network of enthusiast-owned enthusiast-operated automotive communities.
AutoGuide.com provides the latest car reviews, auto show coverage, new car prices, and automotive news. The AutoGuide network operates more than 100 automotive forums where our users consult peers for shopping information and advice, and share opinions as a community.
Linear Mode
