Mig/tig or arc?

[fordmedic]

I'm looking at getting a welder. I would like to weld on my frame if needed. think that will be the thickest material i will weld. Any suggestions or advise?

[action4478]

Unless you are going to weld aluminum,, a MIG is most likely what you will want ...You can use inexpensive sheilding gas (co2) ,with it also ,,,

[RatherBNtheWoods]

It depends. Do you know how to MIG, TIG or ARC weld? Or can you do all three. MIG is the easiest to learn, can do mild steel, SS and AL, but not as good on thin metal projects.
TIG gives the best welds, and units like this Miller - TIG Welders - Maxstar® 150 STL can be used as a TIG or stick(ARC) welder.

I have a MIG and an ARC that do the things I need, but I don't do body panels and other thin metal projects, and I don't do welds that have to be minimal in bead size/maximum in strength. (ie: frame work, roll cages etc...)

ARC is better outside when the wind is blowing, has no hoses, and you can run the cables a long way from the welder. Something you can't do with MIG or TIG.

I know this isn't an answer, but hope it helps you decide what's best for you.

[lone_star_dsl]

I have always preferred ARC welding to anything else. I like the ability to go from one material to another and just picking out a new stick instead of having to change a whole roll of wire.

I also like the fact that I dont have to bother with any shielding gas.

I have never used a TIG welder so I cant really comment on that.

Really, it just comes down to personal preference. Pipefitters and outdoor welders seem to use ARC welders the most. Production welders inside factories tend to go with MIG welders.

[bugman]

If you have never done any welding or it has been a long time since you have I would suggest for you to see if you can find a welding class at a school near you. Then decide on what type of welder that you want. Anybody can stick two pieces of metal together with either the arc or a mig but is it going to hold and what does it look like? I started with a arc welder and a few years ago bought a mig. The migs that you can buy from a Home Depot or for most light work can either be used with gas or a flux core wire, the gas will do a better job but the flux core wire is ok for most applications and the wind does not affect it if you are welding outside. They also come in either 110volt or 220volt models so you will need to decide where you are going to hook it up at where the arc is mostly 220 volt.

Jim

[DirtFarmer]

MIG is easiest to learn, but more expensive, and if you're using gas, you can't use it in even the slightest breeze.

Arc is harder to get good at, but much less expensive and can be used inside and out, on different metals.

My advice is to avoid the little 110V wire feed welders. They have little penetration and a low duty cycle. The low penetration dictates that you do multiple passes which aggravates the duty cycle problem! A budy of mine says that they are only fit for "jewelry repair".

For a few hundred dollars, you can buy a crappy wire feed welder that would be too light a machine to weld a truck/trailer frame or a perfectly fine 220V arc welder that would tackle the job you describe without breaking a sweat.

Good luck with your choice.

[Rick3694]

If you dont have experence .get a mig .try to stay away from 110volt.220 volt is better and watch your duty cycle if the machine says 20%duty cycle you can weld max amps at 2 minutes out of 10 minutes .I welded all my life .any Questions e mail me on my privet message
Rick H.

[Dualie]

As a 4th generation fabricator i always recommend MIG to an inexperienced welder.

Mig is a lot more forgiving and easier to learn for a novice welder.





Now the questions i have to help steer you in the right direction,

Are you looking to weld stainless and aluminum?

DO you have easy access to 220V?

how often are you going to use the welder in reality?


IF your looking to buy a new welder avoid the temptation to buy a cheep Chinese unit.

The only brands i can really recommend for a mig welder are in order

Miller

Lincoln

Esab

IF your looking for a mig welder that will do most everything you will need to do in your garage then look no further than the Millermatic 252. For most steel welding i would recommend an .030" or .035" wire and a 75/25 shield gas (75% argon 25% Co2)

for a couple of hundred dollars more you can get an add on "spool gun" that with a pure argon shielding gas will yield very nice results welding clean aluminum with good fit up.

You can also run an Flux cored wire in this welder if your going to be welding steel out doors or in drafty locations. This is a self shielded electrode that requires NO extra shielding gas. I recommend Lincolns NR-211-MP in .035 for this application.

I cant recommend enough to buy a welder from your local welding supply store. Build a rapport with them. They might be a bit more expensive at initial purchase but their the ones that can answer your questions and they will ALWAYS have the consumables for your welder in stock.

any other questions don't be afraid to ask.

out of all the machines i have in my shop for me and my employees (over 20 different welders)

My favorites are My Miller Millermatic Wire feeders also my favorite for light aluminum MIG welding with the spool gun.

Miller Syncrowave Tig for tig welding aluminum

Linde VI-400 with MK systems cobramatic 2 and prince gun for heavy fabrication of aluminum (more so than the fancy Lincoln with the pulse on pulse technology)

Lincoln ideal arc for tig welding stainless

My Linde VI-400 for welding stainless wire

And Lincoln Vantage 500 diesel drive and LN-25 feeder for structural steel welding in the field.

Don't do much stick anymore but when we still used a lot of it its hard to beat an ole Lincoln SA-250 diesel drive. You could abuse the crap outta of them and they would keep coming back for more.


OH AND DO NOT think your going to go out and be able to make proficient repairs to your trucks frame without A LOT OF practice, practice, practice, before you could ever dream of trying a truly structural weld.

[FarmDiesel]

I'm not sure who is making Hobart these days, but we have a Miller 220v mig and a Hobart 220v mig, and it looks like just about every part is interchangeable. The Hobart does a nice job, for significantly less coin than the Miller.

[snakyjake]

I'm ignorant here...but some of the terms are starting to be a bit confusing:

I thought MIG and TIG were both forms of Arc welding?
Both MIG and TIG can use shielded gas?
And there's something called "stick welding".

I don't want to hijack the thread away from the OP, but since we may want the same thing....the occasional opportunity to weld, we both may be looking for the same advice.

Here's what I want:

• Occasional weld. This is not a profession.
• Weld steel (frame), stainless steel (exhaust), perhaps aluminum when making parts (though I may stick with steel if welding steel is easier and cheaper). Aluminum is not necessary.
• Duty cycle: something for exhaust and frame. I'm not laying sheets of sheet metal for roofing or for ship building.
• Simple.
• Value. Don't want it to turn to junk after a few uses. Don't need a professional industrial model. Don't want the bell and whistle model either. I want the garage model that will last me many years and uses.
• Learning. I don't mind learning and experimenting. I think this would be the fun part.

Don't know anything about DC vs. AC. Or what would be a good duty cycle. I've also seen machines that can do both 220 and 120. A 120 sounds very versatile. I can easily take it to my friends house and use his 120 for a quick tack weld.

The more I read about welding, the more confused I get. I've made some attempts to check out welding schools, but all the ones I've seen are for people going for professional certification. I'm still looking for the amateur garage shop welding class. I have noticed there's instructional videos. But I wanted to see all the different types of welding, their uses, the seams, the process, etc....then making a more informed choice.

[The-washer]

You are where I was not that long ago. I bought a little 110 volt wire feed lincoln welder. I have also put the adapter on so that I can use the big spool of wire. The best way to learn is to buy some metal, and to burn some wire. Make a fence or something. It will give you some experience and allow you to see where you are making your mistakes. You can also tap it with a hammer to see if they are good welds without doing too much damage.

Some tips,
1. Make really small circles when you are welding. That is why there are the little arcs on a good weld.
2. Make sure the metal is clean. I know the heat will burn the paint off, but, it will be an easier weld without paint or other stuff on it.
3. Get an autodarkening helmet. It does not have to be expensive, but, as you learn, it will help you make sure that you are welding the right spots. Nothing will make you feel more stupid than to see a nice bead, a half inch from the area where you are trying to weld.
4. Wear gloves and long sleeves when you are welding. Otherwise you will have little pimples on your arms from burns for a week or two after a project.
5. Follow the recommendations on the door of you welder. Dont try and reinvent the wheel. Do it the same way it has been done for a long time, and you have a greater chance of success.

[RatherBNtheWoods]

They are all ARC welding as in they use an electric ARC for heat.
MIG is Metallic(wire) w/ Inert Gas.
TIG is Tungsten w/ Inert Gas.
Mig is the wire feed. TIG uses a Tungsten tipped "torch" to draw an arc to make heat, then you use a stick of what ever metal your using to weld. It's like using a gas torch to solder or weld, except it uses an electric arc for heat and a gas for flux.
Stick welding and ARC welding are different slangs for the old regular welding with a stick coated with flux that draws an arc for heat.

You may not be happy with a 110V unit. They are pretty limited.

[bugman]

If you have never done any welding, I will still say that you need to go to the local trade school, high school or somewhere that they will show you the correct way to weld. Anybody can stick two pieces of metal together and there is proof all over the highways with broken welds. Welding takes years of practice to get to where it looks like you are doing factory welds and not just gobs of welding rod stuck onto two pieces of metal. A school will show you how to do it right along with the different ways of doing it. You might also want to check with a welding shop and see if they offer any type of classes.

Jim

[K.N.94PSD]

Fordmedic,

The first thing you'll want to ask yourself is how much time and effort are you willing to dedicate to becoming a good welder. If you don't plan on investing the time and effort needed to become proficient at producing good welds then you should seriously consider a different method of joining metals. The last thing you want is a questionable weld, that could end up seriously injuring or killing someone. However, if you decide to do what it takes to produce good welds it can be highly rewarding.
That being said, I would avoid buying a MIG (GMAW) as a first machine. It's too easy to produce weak welds with poor penetration that look good. I've seen too many inexperienced "welders" have a false sense of security because their MIG welds look good; only to have the welds fail due to cold lap, poor penetration, etc..
The first machine I would recommend is a Stick (SMAW) machine capable of AC and DC current. The DC capability should be at least 150 amps, and don't buy an AC only buzz box. I would buy a Miller or a Lincoln. The newer Hobart stuff is built by Miller and is a little lighter duty, so it may be fine for for light duty users. The Stick welders are capable of welding several types of steel, stainless steel, and cast iron. You'll probably want to start out learning how to use 3/32" and 1/8" diameter rods such as 6010, 6011, and 7018 on steel. Avoid advice to use 7014 rods as they have a tendency to produce really crappy welds with inexperienced welders.
If you plan on really becoming a capable welder and spending a lot more money and time learning, then start out with a TIG (GTAW) machine that's AC and DC capable. The Miller Syncrowave series are really good. TIG machines are capable of Stick welding too, so you'll really have two machines in one. The reason you'll need AC capability on the TIG is to do aluminum welding, so if you'll never do aluminum you could get away with a DC only machine. If that's the route you end up taking, the Miller Maxstar series are good.
To save some money check out Ebay, Craig's list, and the classifieds for deals on used equipment. I routinely see great deals on equipment.

Hope it helps,
K.N.
Certified Welder

[fordmedic]

Wow, Thanks for all the info. Very informative. Looks like I have more to ponder.