New well-need pump

[Larry S.]

I am having a well drilled at my mountain cabin and will be needing a pump. The well will be between 250 and 350 ft. depth. I have no experience with submerged deep well pumps but can do plumbing and electrical. Is installing a pump in a well like this something I can do myself? If so I need some advice on how to do it and materials to use. Or should I just bite the bullet and pay a pro to do it.

I plan on building a small pump house over the well head with the pressure tank and electrical service located there.

[SmokeyWren]

Originally Posted by Larry S.

The well will be between 250 and 350 ft. depth. ...Is installing a pump in a well like this something I can do myself?

Not hard, but it can get very expensive if you screw up and drop the pump into the hole. So don't do that.

On second thought, I wouldn't even think of DIY a pump in a 350' deep well. Too much weight to handle without a water well servicing rig, even if you can use the lighter weight schedule 80 pipe. So I'd call a pro. It's different with my wells that are only 80' deep.

But if you insist, and assuming the well digger installs the casing, including the joints of casing with holes in it near the bottom of the well:

Buy the pump that is sized for your well depth, casing size and GPM needs. Probably 3/4 HP, or maybe one HP.

For a well that is for a household and not for irrigation, you need at least 1" pipe. For my wells that are only 80' deep, I used Schedule 80 PVC pipe and thread it, and use threaded collars and pipe joint compound to join the pipe joints together. You may have to use steel pipe for your deeper well, because the schedule 80 may not be strong enough for that much weight.

How much weight is it? Stack the pipe and the pump and the pump wiring in a bundle, then try to lift the bundle. If you can't lift it easily, then you'll need a crane of some sort to take the pump in and out of the well. Or even better would be a water well servicing rig. On my 80' deep wells using schedule 80 pipe, I can probably pull the pump without a crane if necessary - but I've always used a water well servicing pro to do it for me.

You'll need a special tool that will fit snuggly over the pipe but not let the collar slip through it. That's to hold up the pipe/pump that's in the well while you screw in and torque the joint of pipe above the casing. Some shade-tree well workers try to use a "Stilson" pipe wrench instead of the special tool, but that's very risky. Remember that your primary goal is to NOT drop the pump in the well.

And of course you'll need pipe wrenches to tighten and unscrew the pipe joints, along with lots of pipe joint compound.

Tape the pump's electrical wiring harness to the pipe near every pipe joint. (My pro does it about every 10'.) Then plan on cutting that tape off when you pull the pump. You don't want that electric cable flopping around in the hole when you install or remove the pump.

My cable is one solid length from control box to pump. If you must piece together your cable because you can't find 350' in one piece, then good luck with making outstanding, waterproof, splices.

I plan on building a small pump house over the well head with the pressure tank and electrical service located there.

Change your plans. Build the pump house close to the wellhead, but not over it. When you install or remove 20' joints of pipe, you don't want a roof in the way. If you use a pro with an F-450 water well servicing rig, they will appreciate being able to back right up next to the wellhead without having to worry about a roof in the way.

Use a 30-gallon or 55-gallon or some such size empty plastic barrel to cover the actual wellhead. Stuff that barrel with fiberglas insulation. Then build the wellhouse a few feet away, and plumb the water line and pump wiring under ground and come up through the floor of the well house.

My two well houses are both on 4'x8' slabs, and are 4"x8" exterior dimensions. So 4' masonite siding works good with no waste. A standard 36" exterior door fits good on one long side, and a small standard size window is on one end. They don't make pre-built exterior doorframes with the door swinging out of the building, so I installed it "backwards". No problem, except the threshhold is backwards. But I didn't want the door opening to the inside of the wellhous, taking up room inside the small wellhouse.

There is plenty of room inside the wellhouse for the 50-or-so gallon pressure tank and electrical and plumbing controls, along with a big sand filter and everything accessable for future fixin'. I also wired electric lights and a wall outlet in the wellhouse. If you live in cold country, you need a place to plug in the electrical heat tape that prevents freezeups in cold weather.

If you insist on building the wellhouse over the wellhead, then don't forget to install a hole in the roof so you can install and remove those 20' lengths of pipe in the wellhead.

[Band_Member]

very good post smokey wren. i educated myself about well drilling 3 yrs ago when i needed a new well. Heres a neat website about wells

Water well drilling

at 350' depth the weight is going to be tremendous. if it were me i wouldn't mess with it. i'd let the well driller do it and i'd rely on his recommendation for the pump too.

submerged pumps are subject to lightning strikes and being blown out. its happened to friends and family of mine and if it happens to me i 'd want my well driller to be there the next day to replace it and get my water supply up and running (which is generally the case with a good well drilling company).

[klhansen]

Smokey covered the bulk of it fairly well.

I also agree that a 350' deep well is something to let a pro deal with.

Instead of your wellhouse idea, you could go with a pitless adapter, which is a coupling that installs on the side of the casing and mates with a piece that is screwed on top of the riser pipe. On top of that goes a section that lets you pull it up without excavating down to the pipe. It's used extensively in cold country (and I think a mountain cabin in Colorado would qualify) so that the supply pipe to the cabin can be buried below frost depth (think year-round water availability). Then you can put your pressure tank and electrical service in the cabin (basement?). All you need at the well head is a weatherproof cap and a splice point for the cable (the part to the cabin stays in place, buried along with the pipe.)

Here's one supplier of pitless adapters.

http://www.bakermonitor.com/domestic...ers/index.html

Your well driller should be familiar with these.

[ktpauley]

They also make a wellcap that locks. I would suggest getting that cap especially if you aren't going to live there year round. I would go with a pitless adapter. Keith

[94_turbo]

pitless adaptors are used in iowa-----ALL---- the time -----farmers didnt want houses out on there lawns no mo!!!!!! and put the controls and such in the basement----no freezing problems!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Larry S.]

Thanks for all the input. I will most likely go with a pro installer and follow his advice. The well house will probably stay as my cabin is a converted mobile home and has no good place for the tank. I was planning on a removable roof house that will be an insulated cover more than a house. My underground power line is within feet of the planned drilling site and I plan on tapping into it right there. I don't plan on plumbing into the cabin immediately but will just have a spigot at the well house. I need to redo the cabin plumbing before it can be hooked up.

[SmokeyWren]

Originally Posted by Larry S.

I was planning on a removable roof house that will be an insulated cover more than a house.

Ask your pro water well man how much extra he'll charge you to service your well if he has to remove the roof of the pumphouse to pull the pump, instead of simply moving an insulated plastic barrel out of the way.

[Rick M]

Around here, SW MS, our well people use 1" heavy wall black roll piping, comes in 300' rolls which ought to fit the 350' well unless you have to hang the pump right in the very bottom, mine is about 50' from the bottom of the casing with about 50' of static water column over it. Going as deep as you are talking about I would definitely make sure to use appropriate rope or stainless wire cable tied directly to eye on the pump body in addition to the pipe to hold the load. The rope/cable could also be used to help pull the pump up when that time arrives. We hand pulled my 1 hp well this spring thinking the pump was bad and was actually relieved to see the rusted through hole in the hose barb, the one that went back in was stainless steel instead of the galvanized that was put in about 20 years ago when the well was drilled.

[amb2958]

I agree with most of Smokeys points listed above as being good general information. A few things though -

There is no need to use teflon tape or pipe dope on threaded PVC pipe.

Good waterproof electrical connections can be made using Sta-Kon connectors and Scotch brand Super 33 tape. I've installed hundreds of pumps with the leads from the pump sealed this way, just make sure you tape the wire to the drop pipe above and below the splice. Also when taping wire to the pipe give the pipe an initial wrap first and then bring the wire in and give it 4-5 rounds.

I wouldn't use electrical tape as it fails quite often. The better well houses I've seen were insulated and ran a light bulb or two with a thermostat to control the temperature. Well pits were also ok to work in as long as they were big enough to move and work on the tank and switch, around here the state has outlawed new installations of them though.

I prefer Goulds for a standard pump or Grundfos (these are stainless steel and very pricey) but you should let the guy installing it choose as they are the ones who have to warranty it if it fails. A good pump properly sized will easily last 20 years as long as it is not run dry or into a water logged tank. You want your pump to run at least 1.5 minutes per cycle, preferably more as most of the wear is associated with upward thrust of the impellars when the pump starts. A pump is like a car and the people that have the least amount of problems are generally the ones that use the most water. It's not good to have a pump that doesn't get used and it helps to have a larger tank than what the minimum required size is so the pump will run longer cycle times. I personally like the Goulds and Well X Trol bladder tanks with a steel shell over the fiberglass type.

A pitless adapter is the only way to go in my opinion. I've always used the type that you drill a one inch hole through the casing and it has a special piece that fits the curvature of the pipe inside with the outer piece being held in place by U bolts.

[dcbowe]

I built a storage shed around my well, to help protect it from winters and thiefs because I did not live there for the first 2 years way out in the country. I put one of those wind turbines on the roof right above my well so when I pull the pipe I just pop the turbine off and the pipe goes right through the roof, it worked great. My well is 485' deep but I use the pump that sits on top, I do all of my work with no problems pulling the pipe myself to change the check valve out a couple of years ago.

[Rick M]

What kind of pump are you using that sits above ground and pumps from that deep? I know we used to have rod pumps around here that did that, but most have gotten away from it over the years.

[dcbowe]

It's a 1hp jet pump "sta rite" it cost me $700 I installed. I had to read the instructions and I still do not fully understand how it works but it says that it actually pumps down one pipe and it forces the water up a second pipe. My casing is a 2" pvc pipe with a 1" pvc pipe coming up the middle, thats the one I pulled to replace the check valve. I don't underst6and how it pushes the water up because I thought my casing is open at the bottom. My well is close to 500' but my water line (level) is a lot shallow then that, I'm not sure what my water level is because it varies depending on rain etc. This pump also has what they call a 3 stage pump that has to be used for deep holes.

[klhansen]

Originally Posted by dcbowe

I don't understand how it pushes the water up because I thought my casing is open at the bottom. My well is close to 500' but my water line (level) is a lot shallow then that,....

A jet pump pushes a portion of the water it pumps down the hole to a unit called an eductor, which is a venturi type device. The eductor creates flow up the pipe to the pump suction by increasing the velocity of that small portion of water. That creates a low pressure at the inlet (open to the well casing) drawing water in. The eductor only has to offset the difference in head between the water level in the well and the pump along with the friction loss in the riser pipe. The pump boosts the pressure from there (again sending a part of the water from the discharge back downhole to the eductor).

The figure at the top of this page has a nice cross section of an eductor (similar to what would be used in a jet pump application).

There are shallow well jet pumps (with the eductor at the pump) and deep well jet pumps (which have 2 pipes going downhole to the eductor)

[Airforce]

We had a deep well on the farm when I was growing up it was 275 ft deep.
Dad put two clothesline cables on the pump to suspend it, it worked well, brought the top ends to bolts and washers and was pined. ( S/S would work well here) The black plastic pipe was the sch 40 type I think and don't know the pressure abilities of it. What is water pressure is it? 0.48 lbs per foot of eleavation? We used a A-Frame with pullies for the clothesline cables to rase and lower it and sister ran the 3000 Super Dexta tractor dad handled the water pipe I kept the two apart. I think that the sch 40 pipe is good for 300 psi so it worked well. Use the All Stainless Steel pipe clamps. We should have had a plumbers union at the top of the pump. The splices were done in little clear plastic tubes with weather proof threaded ends and never had a problem I think that it was Vasiline in the tubes to seal out water. I don't know what the regulations are now or have changed but this worked very well. If you do get someone to do the job atleast know what will make a good job and how it should be done. Gone are the good old days. Take Care.