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Old 08-17-2007, 06:34 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Re: Solar power?

Hi Doug, our cells are layered amorphous silicon solar cells where the other technology is the crystalline silicon module like the Siemens. They make in theory more power at high noon than we do but, as the temperature of the cell rises to say 170 their efficiency drops drastically and ours only drops slightly. Also we can make power from 7 AM to 7 PM. albeit less as the day ends and less in the early AM but the Siemens type makes little if any in the wee hours. all in all we can make more KWH per per day per square foot than the other type and we cost less. More KWH per day for less dollars. I can e mail you if ya want.
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Old 08-17-2007, 07:03 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Re: Solar power?

I hear you about architects and “style.” I did the Bob Vila thing on my house and an architect and my wife beat me down on a couple of skylights. They haven’t leaked…yet, but they sure do waste energy. The wife left but I’m stuck with the skylights.

Here in Indiana we have both heat and cold problems. Somewhat like FL we don’t have hurricanes but we do have tornadoes. Smaller and quirkier but nearly nuclear bomb energy density. If I had the money, I would build a cut-and-cover underground house. The water table here is high so I build my shell and cover it with fill. Excellent drainage is absolutely necessary. Few windows, all facing south (the winters here are more extreme than the summers) and I fit up some 1 inch thick T6 steel blast shutters to keep the 250 MPH 2x4s out. I saw a number of underground homes out on the Great Plains and they are a good common-sense response to that climate. Have a good snow blower. Easy to insulate, quiet and tornado-proof. Usually in KS and NE the water table is quite a ways down, and it might rain 25” a year so they would not have to be as fanatic about drainage as in IN or FL.

Even with my frame house, I would definitely go for the foam insulation. With fiberglass batts, it is just impossible to completely seal the infiltration out. At least my infiltration keeps the radon dilute enough to b safe. My attic insulation is R-60. I couldn’t stuff any more pink panther in there and expect my roof to ventilate.
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Old 08-17-2007, 07:08 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Re: Solar power?

According to my Hitachi sales info, a single stage absorption unit has a COP of 0.8. A two-stage unit has a COP of 1.2.

EER is generally 3.3 times COP. Good Rankine-cycle chillers (Trane or York) give you a COP of around 4. Residential stuff goes around COP of 3.7.

Absorption has the reputation as a maintenance hog.
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Old 08-17-2007, 09:08 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Re: Solar power?

There is a much better alternative to fiberglass batt insulation... sprayfoam.com
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Old 08-17-2007, 09:16 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Re: Solar power?

Yeah, the foam is a good alternative but eleven years ago it was too pricey.
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Old 08-17-2007, 10:53 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Re: Solar power?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why are they hurdles. Peak load is around 3 in the afternoon when solar would be at its greatest.

[/ QUOTE ]
Um, no. Peak insolation is at solar noon. Peak output from a photovoltaic panel is likewise at solar noon unless it’s installed facing somewhere other than south. And the peak output of a solar panel isn’t a sharp peak – three hours after solar noon, you’ll get ~70% of peak output.
There’s also seasonal load to consider: Peak insolation is in late June but peak air conditioning load is in August.



[/ QUOTE ]
Your assuming you dont have the panels on a tracking array? Load is still pretty high at noon. Even if its 70% it is still generating 70%. It would still make a difference if you had a large array. And sure you have different loads at different times of the year but load still increases during the daylight hours no matter what time of the year it is. It just might not rise as much.
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Old 08-17-2007, 11:50 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Re: Solar power?

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why are they hurdles. Peak load is around 3 in the afternoon when solar would be at its greatest.

[/ QUOTE ]
Um, no. Peak insolation is at solar noon. Peak output from a photovoltaic panel is likewise at solar noon unless it’s installed facing somewhere other than south. And the peak output of a solar panel isn’t a sharp peak – three hours after solar noon, you’ll get ~70% of peak output.
There’s also seasonal load to consider: Peak insolation is in late June but peak air conditioning load is in August.



[/ QUOTE ]
Your assuming you dont have the panels on a tracking array? Load is still pretty high at noon. Even if its 70% it is still generating 70%. It would still make a difference if you had a large array. And sure you have different loads at different times of the year but load still increases during the daylight hours no matter what time of the year it is. It just might not rise as much.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to get superdutyjohn to help me post Siemens type panel graphs compared to ours, you can see that they clearly make more KW at 90 degree angles but at low angles early in the day and late in the day we can still make 40% of out max. This adds up to more KWH per day and we can even make pretty good power on a cloudy day. Try that with the Siemens type. We have a tracker but it's not worth it because it cost a pile of bucks and you really don't get the bang for your buck.

PS: You can walk on ours.

RE.
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Old 08-19-2007, 07:45 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Re: Solar power?

[ QUOTE ]
You're assuming you don't have the panels on a tracking array? ...

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I'm assuming that. Given the cost of cells now, and the cost & maintenance requirements of a tracking mechanism, the cost-effectiveness tradeoff just isn't there. Maybe on a satellite where weight, not cost, is the primary concern. But not on Earth.
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Old 08-19-2007, 11:53 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Re: Solar power?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're assuming you don't have the panels on a tracking array? ...

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I'm assuming that. Given the cost of cells now, and the cost & maintenance requirements of a tracking mechanism, the cost-effectiveness tradeoff just isn't there. Maybe on a satellite where weight, not cost, is the primary concern. But not on Earth.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tracking adds 30% cost to our system but only adds 15% more efficient to our system. The cost doesn't pay. Battery storage which we can do adds another 305 to our system plus a bunch and I mean a bunch of batteries that require a lot of maintenance and VENTING!!

Power Storage worth it? Well if you want to prove a point yes, or if you live in the boonies and no grid power is available. BTW in the boonies a small diesel gen-set works pretty good.
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Old 08-19-2007, 09:16 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Re: Solar power?

I never said tracking arrays were cost effective. The only time they make sence is when you have limited room and need to get the most out of the room you have.
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Old 08-19-2007, 09:19 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Re: Solar power?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're assuming you don't have the panels on a tracking array? ...

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I'm assuming that. Given the cost of cells now, and the cost & maintenance requirements of a tracking mechanism, the cost-effectiveness tradeoff just isn't there. Maybe on a satellite where weight, not cost, is the primary concern. But not on Earth.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you use a mechanical tracker the maintenance isnt that much and cost isnt a whole lot. Sure the electronic trackers might get a little more output out of them but then you get the maint and reliability issues.
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Old 08-19-2007, 09:26 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Re: Solar power?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're assuming you don't have the panels on a tracking array? ...

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I'm assuming that. Given the cost of cells now, and the cost & maintenance requirements of a tracking mechanism, the cost-effectiveness tradeoff just isn't there. Maybe on a satellite where weight, not cost, is the primary concern. But not on Earth.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you use a mechanical tracker the maintenance isn't that much and cost isn't a whole lot. Sure the electronic trackers might get a little more output out of them but then you get the maint and reliability issues.

[/ QUOTE ]

Our cells are not as dependent on angle as the Siemens crystal type. We can still make pretty good power at 7 AM and 7 PM. The trackers are almost needed for the Siemens type.
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Old 08-19-2007, 11:23 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Re: Solar power?

I wouldnt use a tracker just because you can buy more panels to make up for the gains you get with a tracker for less money but it is an option if someone needed one.
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Old 09-14-2007, 06:18 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Re: Solar power?

Update: Monday at 2 PM Rudy Giuliani will be going up on the roof to see our 56KW system. We are hoping for his support on this IF he actually becomes elected. A small donation HA HA is expected. A certain moderator here is invited.
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Old 09-14-2007, 06:53 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Re: Solar power?

Roof,are you going to post pics of Rudy on top of your house? [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img]
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