6.4L Power Stroke Engine and DrivetrainDiscussion of the 6.4L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 2008 Super-Duty trucks. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 6.4L Power Stroke engine.
That has noticed all this speculation on the aspects of the new 6.4, claiming this and that and carrying over denigration from the 6.0 on to the 6.4 and it's not even on the road as of yet. I don't think anyone on this board has driven one and few have even seen one other than at an auto show.
The same would apply for the NEW Toyota full size 1/2 ton pick up, it's not even on the road and the naysayers are beating on it before they drove it.
Yes the 6.0 had some teething problems and the problems started to be worked out as the model matured. I think the 7.3 which is the gold standard on this site had a few teething problems when first developed.
I'm hoping the new 6.4 Ford and the New Toyota are both well done and both big hits. If i had to bet I'd put my money more so on the Toyota in that they generally test things pretty well before putting them on the road.
As to the Ford 6.4 I pray that Ford gives their supply vendors a good kick in the a$$, because many of the 6.0 problems were poor QC from their vendors.
In mean time I'd like to see a post from some one that has driven one. Not the usual my cousins next door neighbors mailman's sister etc. etc.
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These trucks are running around Dearborn I dont know if they are gas or diesel but I can say they are by far the uglyiest truck on the market. I hate to say that being my wife works for Ford. But there is know way I would by the 08 Super Duty.
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2005 F-350 Super Duty Reg. Cab 4x4 - 35x12.50 Cooper STT, Muffler Delete. 2006 Harley Davidson Street Rod
Can you cite some examples of "QC" issues that were the fault of the suppliers to Nav
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Maybe the early 03 injectors?
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1986 F-350-Cummins 4-wd (converted to dually) flatbed. 1994 p-pump 160hp 12v Cummins conversion with a few minor bombs. Well over 200k miles.
1993 F-350 4x4 SRW 4 dr 460/auto. 157K completely stock.
I don't count bed-plate machining issues as a "vendor" problem. It is however a quality control issue regardless. So are cylinder blocks that are cracked around the oil cooler opening. Turbos and EGR valves don't count in my opinion. They fail due to the conditions not quality or manufacturing. But I do have a list of things I can personally vouch for as being quality challenged:
<ul type="square"> [*]03 injectors,[*]03-04 EBP sensor[*]03-04 ICP sensor[*]03-04 Turbocharger adapter pipe (y-pipe)[*]05+ HPOP Quick Connect fitting[*]04 engine harness[*]Head gaskets / head bolts (or is that a design flaw?)[*]EGR coolers[*]Oil coolers[/list]
Aside from those few items the engines themselves are pretty stout. It is extremely rare to find a base engine component that has failed due to it's own integrity. Most engine failures are the result of something bolted onto them failing or performing out of the designed parameters.
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. Ford Master Diesel Technician
I am not sure I would put Toyota before the Ford. Toyota and Honda have home markets that they release many a model in for two or more years before it hits the US. I don't think Toyota has such an ability with 1/2 ton or greater trucks. Not that they can not get it right the first time around or first year out, but that they don't have the home market to test it on as they do their sedans and such.
Peace and Blessings
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Maybe I'm not like everyone else on this forum, but I didn't buy the Ford because it was a Ford. I shopped around. I looked at all the trucks and decided I liked the Ford. I liked the straight axle, the body style and the 'New Quiet Diesel.' I didn't like the interior. If they had problems with the '03's, I think everyone would understand. First year of a new engine and drivetrain. However, many of the issues have not been solved, and it seems we are starting to get some new issues with the '05's and '06's. Ford is in no position to invest in their vehicle line right now to up the quality. Read any financial magazine on the rack right now, and Ford is in deep financial woes. I don't blame anyone for waiting a year or two with this new diesel. It has even more opportunities, twin turbos and all the emission stuff, for Ford to require improvements. In general, I think all the new low emission diesels will go through teething pains.
__________________ 2003 F250 XLT 4x4 Sport Crew Cab,
Built May '03, Bright Red, 6.0 Auto, ESOF 4x4, 3.73LS, 4.5" Edge Lift, 315/75-16 BFG KO A/T's, Polished/Clear Powder Coated Diff Covers, Weld Cheyenne 8 Wheels, Line X, Overhead DVD, Torza Tonneau Cover, 30' Fleetwood Gearbox Travel Trailer
The overall injector design was very poor. Sturman sold Nav a "bill of goods," and they bought it. The initial '03 injectors were improved upon, but all of them were manufactured by Siemens, who was done a good job in terms of QC.
The Garrett turbo is not, inherently, problematic. The Duramax uses the exact same unit, but GM/Dmax also spent the extra money to include a position sensor that alerts the ECM if the variable components start to stick. The ECM then works to address that. Nav didn't want to spend the money for the sensor. Beyond that, though, the turbo only experiences sticking conditions when it sits for a long time, or is driven lightly/sparsely. Both are conditions for which a diesel is ill-suited, and not within the design parameters of the engine.
Nav did have some casting and machining problems. However, those aren't "supplier" related. The sensors are built to Nav's specs, and generally, have been very good in terms of matching tolerances. Nav does a poor job with wiring harnesses, but so do most mfg'ers in the industry. It's always an afterthought. EGR coolers fail because they didn't test the design correctly. Basically, Nav tested them under full power/heavy load conditions. However, a LD truck often experiences many hot/warm/cool/cold thermal cycles, which can cause the metal to expand and contract at different rates. Nav didn't test for that -- they tested to make sure they would sustain full power.
As for the heads/bolts/gaskets, they are sufficient for stock power levels. However, poor cold start programming can sometimes cause a cold, stock engine to exceed max CP, and breach the gasket. That's how some of these guys with stock engines end up with blown gaskets -- poor programming coupled with some "stacked" manufacturing tolerances.
Yadda..yadda..yadda...so on, and so forth...
However, notice the common theme? Poor design, testing or control logic. Very few of the 6.0L problems were the result of poor QC from downstream suppliers. The blame lies with the folks who either approved the designs, controls or implementation.
Now, we can all hope and pray that the 6.4L doesn't suffer from similar maladies, but pointing the finger downstream isn't going to help.
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I don't count bed-plate machining issues as a "vendor" problem. It is however a quality control issue regardless. So are cylinder blocks that are cracked around the oil cooler opening. Turbos and EGR valves don't count in my opinion. They fail due to the conditions not quality or manufacturing. But I do have a list of things I can personally vouch for as being quality challenged:
<ul type="square"> [*]03 injectors,[*]03-04 EBP sensor[*]03-04 ICP sensor[*]03-04 Turbocharger adapter pipe (y-pipe)[*]05+ HPOP Quick Connect fitting[*]04 engine harness[*]Head gaskets / head bolts (or is that a design flaw?)[*]EGR coolers[*]Oil coolers[/list]
Aside from those few items the engines themselves are pretty stout. It is extremely rare to find a base engine component that has failed due to it's own integrity. Most engine failures are the result of something bolted onto them failing or performing out of the designed parameters.
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Who made the harnesses?
Head Gaskets? I wonder how many failed because of go fast boxes and chips?
As to the bedplates, how many leaked because the gasket was just installed and kinked or ripped?
Additionally when the 03 6.0's came out few if any mechanics at the smaller shops had any training or any clue.
My 03's were both good and when the White one was flashed it shifted not as good and did worse on the MPG front. The green one was never flashed. The 04 never had one problem. The white one developed a slight not quite a drip and I left it alone.
That said I still say no one really knows much about the 6.4 yet. I will say if it is not a hit this time even the die hard Ford guys will flee, never to return.
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Too much junk/toys to mention, ever changing due to too getting bored too quickly. I need a 10 step program!
Want to call? I'm in the book. Want to argue....First explain the square root of negative one....lol
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