6.4L Power Stroke Engine and DrivetrainDiscussion of the 6.4L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 2008 Super-Duty trucks. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 6.4L Power Stroke engine.
Any of you guys heard anymore on the problem between ford/navistar? All this is making me nervous, so I really hope they get it settled fast and cheap.
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01' F-350 Powerstroke CC SB, 4X4, auto. MODS: 4" Exhaust with muffler delete, ATS E-Power Tuner, Autometer Phantom pyro, and boost guages, Rapid Flow intake.
What I don't understand is why the previous thread was locked/pulled...whatever.
I know that Jason doesn't allow the CONSTRUCTION of a lawsuit...meaning folks here, on his site, coming together (getting their story "straight", etc) and actively pursuing some type of mass (or individual) litigation, against any entity.
But that is NOT what was going on here.
A lawsuit (apparently) has been filed between Navistar & Ford, the "construction" of the suit is long done.
I was only checking the previous thread to get updates on the court action, and how it could DIRECTLY affect Ford's stake with that engine...it appeared that the thread was locked with no explanation...
seeing how there is already a freakin' forum header for that engine...you'd think it's possible extinction would concern alot of members..
guys can ***** and moan about lemon lawing their 6.0 all over this place...even get "support" from other members in who to contact at FordUSA, etc...
but forbidding the discussion of a real, live COURTCASE between Navi/Ford is rediculous...IMHO, of course. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
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What I don't understand is why the previous thread was locked/pulled...whatever.
I know that Jason doesn't allow the CONSTRUCTION of a lawsuit...meaning folks here, on his site, coming together (getting their story "straight", etc) and actively pursuing some type of mass (or individual) litigation, against any entity.
But that is NOT what was going on here.
A lawsuit (apparently) has been filed between Navistar & Ford, the "construction" of the suit is long done.
I was only checking the previous thread to get updates on the court action, and how it could DIRECTLY affect Ford's stake with that engine...it appeared that the thread was locked with no explanation...
seeing how there is already a freakin' forum header for that engine...you'd think it's possible extinction would concern alot of members..
guys can ***** and moan about lemon lawing their 6.0 all over this place...even get "support" from other members in who to contact at FordUSA, etc...
but forbidding the discussion of a real, live COURTCASE between Navi/Ford is rediculous...IMHO, of course. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
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It is time for FORD to say enough is enough. Find a new engine supplier, or build thier own diesel that can handle the demands of a real truck [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smokin.gif[/img].
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<font color="red">[b] 2003 F250
6.0 PSD XLT, 4x4 SC FX4 LT265's 3:73 LS/Torqshift
LineX Bedliner Hog Catback Exhaust Virtual Billet Grill Tranny tune by ID
<font color="blue">05/05/03 Build date
[/ QUOTE ]
It is time for FORD to say enough is enough. Find a new engine supplier, or build thier own diesel that can handle the demands of a real truck [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smokin.gif[/img].
[/ QUOTE ]
Not quite that easy to 'find' 200K-300K units of available MD engine manufacturing capacity.
Also if you have not checked Ford Motor Company's own financial situation lately you will find that they themselves are in dire financial straits. They recently mortgaged ALL of the company's assets, including the brand names and the 'Blue Oval' trademark, to secure $17 Billion in debt for the next 3 years. CEO estimates that Ford will lose enough money over that period to burn $17 Billion in negative cash flow. Ford's bond credit rating is 'Junk' and the stock in the dumpster. Dividends were cut to save cash last year, every penny is precious in Dearborn right now.
It can easily cost $1 Billion to design, develop, and produce a new 'clean sheet' diesel truck engine; not to mention the 48 month minimum crtitical path lead time before Job 1. [60 months is more probable, 72 months not unlikely.]
So - if Ford decided today to build their own engine it would cost $1 Billion which they do NOT have and it would NOT be ready for sale until 2011 at the very earliest, late 2012 likeliest.
Like it or not Ford and International are stuck with each other for the duration of the existing contract - its just a pi$$ing match over money. As a long time automotive supplier employee I can say that Ford and GM have a long history of treating their suppliers like dirt on the sole of their shoe. No such thing as a 'Good' commercial relationship - if you don;t play hardball you go bankrupt. Detroit is littered with carcasses of bankrupt suppliers right now - list grows longer every day. Ford would whore out their own Mom if it saved them $.01 on cheaper Chinese parts imports.
Then as a consumer I only have one recourse, and that is if I decide to upgrade my truck, then I might have to look else where. FMC and International is not a very good investment at this time.
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<font color="red">[b] 2003 F250
6.0 PSD XLT, 4x4 SC FX4 LT265's 3:73 LS/Torqshift
LineX Bedliner Hog Catback Exhaust Virtual Billet Grill Tranny tune by ID
<font color="blue">05/05/03 Build date
[ QUOTE ]
but forbidding the discussion of a real, live COURTCASE between Navi/Ford is rediculous...IMHO, of course. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
[/ QUOTE ]
Normally, discussion of moderations is not done in the forum, but I wanted to clarify this one for everyone.
In actuality, this forum is for technical discussions about the 6.4. So in reality, discussions about a lawsuit are off topic. However we have been allowing a little latitude on this, since the 6.4 is not even out yet. That said, the problem with the other thread was that posters were continuously interjecting comments about the new Cummins engine into it. After editing out comments about it several times, it became too time consuming to deal with. Therefore, it was locked.
This thread will suffer the same fate should it venture off into discussion of anything other than the 6.4 (including discussion of what should replace it if this lawsuit were to take a turn for the worse.).
__________________ 2003 Toreador Red/Arizona Beige CC, DRW, Lariat, FX4, 6.0 PSD, Torqshift, born early Feb. 03, (still running the original flash!), AIC, MBRP turbo-back exhaust, Tuning by Total Diesel Performance, AFE PG7, Fumoto valve, B&W hitch, Di-Pricol gauges, Voyager brake controller, DIESELSITE Coolant filter, Timbrens, Rancho RSXs, Michelin XPS Traction's, a whole bunch of "bling", Connex 4300hp, JL Audio 275w amp w/ 12" sub, Alpine door and rear seat speakers. 376hp
[/ QUOTE ]
It is time for FORD to say enough is enough. Find a new engine supplier, or build thier own diesel that can handle the demands of a real truck [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smokin.gif[/img].
[/ QUOTE ]
While I do agree with this statement, I also definitely agree with what Jmoser said. It would take alot of time and resources to come up with something completely new on their own. And that sucks. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
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2004 F250 Lariat 6.0 PSD Automatic, Blue, Supercab, 4x4, 4" Magnaflow Exhaust from the Turbo back
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2003 Toreador Red/Arizona Beige CC, DRW, Lariat, FX4, 6.0 PSD, Torqshift, born early Feb. 03, (still running the original flash!), AIC, MBRP turbo-back exhaust, Tuning by Total Diesel Performance, AFE PG7, Fumoto valve, B&W hitch, Di-Pricol gauges, Voyager brake controller, DIESELSITE Coolant filter, Timbrens, Rancho RSXs, Michelin XPS Traction's, a whole bunch of "bling", Connex 4300hp, JL Audio 275w amp w/ 12" sub, Alpine door and rear seat speakers. 376hp
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