6.4L Power Stroke Engine and DrivetrainDiscussion of the 6.4L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 2008 Super-Duty trucks. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 6.4L Power Stroke engine.
If the epa would allow it, this looks like a simpler 6.4l that has some potential and flexibility for power and servicability. Low horse but nice torque. Just thought this looks interesting.
that is the same motor just internatiol's motor for what there putting in there trucks. ford wanted more power to compete with chevy and didge so thats why its more complicated.
So they couldnt get enough power from one turbo? 620ft lbs seems pretty close to 650, just a little more tweaking and ford ads all their space taking add ons. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
they did for driveability to get rid of turbo lag but i know what your saying but then again we are talking about fords ideas here and their track record hasnt been to bright.
The VGT on the Maxx Force adds a level of complexity that F*rd now knows isn't compatible with the pickup-truck-consuming public. We hot-rodders have managed to highlight the weak points in the VVT on the 6.0 with resounding clarity.
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"Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result." - Sir Winston Churchill
May your road stay clear & dry, may your fuel never gel, and may you never be outsmarted by your idiot lights.
Hmmm, LBZ Dmax has a VGT, same turbo as the 6.0 IIRC, even has problems just like the 6.0 does with the turbo. And as I recall, the 6.4L has one fixed and one VG turbo.
Guess the pickup-truck-consuming public better get used to it's incompatibility with the VG turbo. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
Dave
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Smokyred- RED 11/97 F250HD XLT SCLB Auto 4.10LS 4x4 OFFROAD Powered By 2L Motorsports and SWAMPS.
Mods: AM Ultra-Lites, DiPricol HPOP gauge,TS/2L Moto Chip, 4" Straight-Piped, Poor boy's intake, Swamps II's, BTS, 285 BFG A/T's on factory Alcoas. Lots more to install, see below!
On the bench: AirFlo S400, Swamps 275's, Studs Rods and Springs for the top end, and some other stuff.
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So they couldnt get enough power from one turbo? 620ft lbs seems pretty close to 650, just a little more tweaking and ford ads all their space taking add ons. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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At the higher RPMs, pressure ratios, and higher mass airflow requirements of the Ford application, the single turbo required to handle that level of mass airflow efficiently would've been so large that lag would have been a substantial problem. Thus, two smaller turbos in series allow the required pressure ratio at that mass airflow while also being able to get spooled up quickly, greatly reducing lag.
ITEC did the engine, not Ford. There are a lot of misconceptions about that running around ("ITEC had a great engine until Ford ruined it" being one of the most common). Yes, Ford had input, particularly in the area of power/torque requirements, but it's ITEC's engine.
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AutoJim
Cooling Guy
'99.5 F350 Lariat CC SRW 4x2, 7.3L 4R100
'99 Mustang Cobra, SCCA Solo2 E Street Prepared
I can't believe no one said anything about this.. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]
By optimizing transmission and drivelines it is possible to see double digit improvements in vehicle fuel economy [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] with the MaxxForce 7.
I'll take turbo lag and 30 less ft lbs,
Gimmie a double digit increase in fuel economy....That's priceless at $3.00 / gal..
__________________ 02' F250 SWB CC 4x4 Lariat 7.3/Auto 2-Tone Grey/Black, Stainless Nerfs, Westin Grill & Stainless Brush Guard, KC Highlighters, 285/16 BF Goodrich AT/KO's on American Racing Rims. TRI light bar on rear, Silverstars, High 5 Cab lights, InTank / PrePump Mods, Prodigy, C-bet'r mirrors & 18K REESE Signature slider.
70' Stang Fastback 351W - Auto / White deluxe interior /Fold down rear Pics 00' Chrysler Town & Country Limited AWD 03' Cougar 281 EFS with all the fixins.. 06' Kubota BX2350 FEL, 60"MMM
Take a look at your wrist, see the that's right there's a little FORD Blue blood in all of us... Even the JAP Diesel lovers....
Ford and gm aren't the only ones messing around with vgt's. Now dodge is gonna do it too on the 6.7 cummins. Their setup isn't a sliding vane type, but something else in the housing. I'll be damned if I can remember how it's supposed to work, but my understanding is that it also serves as the engine brake when that's actuated. I have no idea on reliability, as they haven't been out long enough to tell. I guess vgt's are something that's just needed to meet '07 emissions and still have acceptable response and power.
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1998 12v 5 spd 2wd dually, 271k on truck, bhaf, piers 370's, timing at 16.5 deg, 3k gsk, #0 plate full forward, afc arm on shelf in shop, htb2 64-14 turbo with wastegate set at 45 psi, southbend dual disk clutch, detroit locker, has broken 2 stock dana 80 limited slip units, has run 14.65 at 98 granny shifting the 5 spd, dynoed at 450 hp and 906 ft/lbs on REALLY STINGY dyno
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...Their setup isn't a sliding vane type, but something else in the housing. I'll be damned if I can remember how it's supposed to work...
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the compressor wheels slides in and out along the axis of the shaft inside the compressor housing, which simulates increasing and decreasing the size of the housing, and therefore adjusting the drive pressure and boost created.
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...I guess vgt's are something that's just needed to meet '07 emissions and still have acceptable response and power.
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nope, just technology meets turbos. they are popular (and so effective) now because a single turbo can behave as multiple, different sized turbos for specific applications (ie. acting small for low end and quick spool-up, large for top end boost, and everywhere in between). it's the best of all worlds. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img]
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Travis
'03 F350 Dually, 6.0, Supercab, longbed, 4.10 LS, sport pkg, extremely RED, STRAIGHT PIPED, SCT Xcalibrator, full guages
- Job1 programming, Harpooned, Skweeker Mod, Zoodad Mod
- Did that thing that you're not supposed to talk about
'79 Bronco, 468cid Ford 460 marine motor, C6/NP205
Previous -'99 F250, Rg Cab XLT, 7.3/6spd, 3.73
Project truck
- '96 Cummins, 215hp/5spd, Diprocol guages, Plate & AFC full fwd, hi-capacity external lubrication system
To add: 2 1/2T axles, 46" goodyears, etc.
[ QUOTE ] <font color="blue">VGT</font> on the Maxx Force . . . . <font color="blue">VVT</font> on the 6.0
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Hmmm, LBZ Dmax has a VGT, same turbo as the 6.0 IIRC, even has problems just like the 6.0 does with the turbo. And as I recall, the 6.4L has one fixed and one VG turbo.
Guess the pickup-truck-consuming public better get used to it's incompatibility with the VG turbo.
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There is quite a bit of difference between a VGT and a VVT.
VGT = Variable Geometry Turbocharger
VVT = Variable Vane Turbocharger
A VGT adjusts the pitch of stationary vanes positioned around the compressor wheel or turbine wheel.
A VVT adjusts the pitch of the turbine wheel vanes. This has been problematic on the 6.0 because the mixture of oil vapors from the CCV and soot from the EGR system builds up a deposit of nasty sludge on the turbine shaft where the pitch actuator collar slides. When enough gunk is deposited, the pitch adjustment range becomes increasingly limited.
VGTs tend to be a little more robust than VVTs. The vane pitch adjustment mechanism can be a little simpler, as it doesn't need to interface with the turboshaft, which can spin in excess of 100,000 rpm. Unlike a VVT, with a VGT the moving parts can be isolated and/or shielded from the direct exhaust stream.
Both of these types of turbos invoke one of the corrollaries of Murphy's law: The more parts you need to make it work, the more parts you have to break.
I don't know what is on the Duramax. But you said it had a VGT, same as the 6.0. Which, as you see, is a contradiction. Do you know for certain what's on the Duramax?
Musclford:
I'm quite certain that the double digit improvement that they boast of is a double digit percentage improvement in mileage, i.e. a 10 percent improvement rather than a 10 mpg improvement.
Hope that didn't ruin your day. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]
I'm quite certain that the double digit improvement that they boast of is a double digit percentage improvement in mileage, i.e. a 10 percent improvement rather than a 10 mpg improvement.
Hope that didn't ruin your day. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]
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Well actually ya kinda did, but 10% is better than -10%.... I guess...
At least they are boasting of an increase. I'm hoping Ford isn't mentioning any mileage improvements only because the last time they did, it came back to bite them. Because so many factors affect mileage, especially the weight of ones foot, it's too subjective to claim an increase...
__________________ 02' F250 SWB CC 4x4 Lariat 7.3/Auto 2-Tone Grey/Black, Stainless Nerfs, Westin Grill & Stainless Brush Guard, KC Highlighters, 285/16 BF Goodrich AT/KO's on American Racing Rims. TRI light bar on rear, Silverstars, High 5 Cab lights, InTank / PrePump Mods, Prodigy, C-bet'r mirrors & 18K REESE Signature slider.
70' Stang Fastback 351W - Auto / White deluxe interior /Fold down rear Pics 00' Chrysler Town & Country Limited AWD 03' Cougar 281 EFS with all the fixins.. 06' Kubota BX2350 FEL, 60"MMM
Take a look at your wrist, see the that's right there's a little FORD Blue blood in all of us... Even the JAP Diesel lovers....
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