DPF - only reason for ULSD?

[RjeffJ]

Torino73,
Think you answered your own question. With onset of ULSD the "cost to produce" went up. Extra equipment and processing to reduce the sulfur content. Diesel went up because of that extra cost imposed by US EPA -- right or wrong that is the main cause relative to gasoline.

Why gasoline and diesel are so high now ???????????a bunch of reasons.

Back on point -- I installed the job 2 air dam and believe their is about .5mpg improvement on the hiway.
Cheers,
Goldspot

[7.3L F-250]

i was talking to someone from a refinary and he was saying that when diesel leaves the refinary its only at about 7 ppm vs ULSD's 15 ppm

[BoulderGT3]

Because 75% of the threads with the 6.4 deal with fuel consumption I'll add a little more on the subject of why diesel has become so much more expensive.

Not to defend the U.S. oil companies, but their "downstream" (distribution and refining) profits have stayed pretty much linear with the higher prices and volumes. That is why I take exception to the easy path that they are gouging us. The fundamental issue at this point is that the refineries are not very efficient and don't have the best technology to refine government mandated ULSD. In fact, in many cases, they have a very difficult time making ULSD out of sour crudes and have to buy the more expensive (driven up by speculation) Nigerian crude. The initial estimates by the EPA were that ULSD would add no more than $.03-05 per gallon to the cost. Yeah right.

As stated earlier, a windfall profits tax would no doubt be passed on to the consumer. If our government could execute policy what they could do is legislate that oil cos put adequate funding into refinery improvements which right now they don't have a lot of motivation to accelerate. This would drive down the refining costs sooner allowing the use of cheaper crude and thus lower the cost of ULSD. Makes sense to me which is why it will never happen. Current thinking is that the refineries will improve themselves but it will take 3-5 years and many billions to do so. The EPA totally underestimated the cost of ULSD conversion.

I couldn't agree more with Torino, for now we're screwed.

[SteveIn29]

Originally Posted by BLOWINSMOKE99STROKE

Wow, Maybe Florida Is Just Behind The Learning Curve, There Is 4 Fuel Stations Within Fove Miles Of My House Where You Can Get High Sulfer Red Fuel, And It Even Says On The Pump 500ppm Of Sulfur Or More.

500ppm isn't "high sulfur" it is low sulfur diesel (LSD).

[SteveIn29]

I didn't notice any discernible drop in my trucks mpg when California switched over to ULSD.

[7.3L F-250]

i was pretty sure HHO was 500 ppm LSD was 50 ppm and ULSD was 15 ppm but i can be 100% wrong

all i know is right now im seriously considering bio

[SteveIn29]

United States

As of September 2006, on-highway diesel fuel sold at retail locations in the United States is ULSD[4]......

......The allowable sulfur content for ULSD (15 ppm) is much lower than the previous U.S. on-highway standard for low sulfur diesel (LSD, 500 ppm), .....
Ultra-low sulfur diesel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Elsewhere in the article it does mention that European LSD was spec'd at 50ppm before they switched to ULSD.

[7.3L F-250]

then whats the sulfer content for HHO and the fuel before LSD

[GEARJAMMER]

Originally Posted by SteveIn29

United States

As of September 2006, on-highway diesel fuel sold at retail locations in the United States is ULSD[4]......

......The allowable sulfur content for ULSD (15 ppm) is much lower than the previous U.S. on-highway standard for low sulfur diesel (LSD, 500 ppm), .....
Ultra-low sulfur diesel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Elsewhere in the article it does mention that European LSD was spec'd at 50ppm before they switched to ULSD.

You didn't read the whole article and they changed the rules. All of Ca. and 80% for the rest of the nation on 09/06. All highway diesel being sold at retail outlets have until 12-01-10 to switch over. CLICK HERE!


What do you do out there at the "Stumps?" I was there in68/69.

Shawn

[rambunctious]

the use of the ULSD and the DPF drops the particulate emission an order of magnitude ( 10 x ), while the mpg is reduced 20%, so
I guess there is still a net improvment in particulates in the enviornment,

BUT, is the increased CO2 effect of more fuel consumption better than the particulates reduction??


the new emmision requirements causes Ford to run a regeneration cycle to clean a filter, this cycle uses fuel to create heat to clean the filter.... so Ford's solution is what is reducing their mileage

what about a heat shielded (insulated) exhaust system and electric heat source to burn off the filter????? instead of using fuel to create that heat.....

Ramb

[timid1]

Originally Posted by rambunctious

what about a heat shielded (insulated) exhaust system and electric heat source to burn off the filter????? instead of using fuel to create that heat.....

You still need energy of some sort to create that heat, no? I don't know that you can get away with just supplying an "electric" source to burn off the filter; that source, if I am not mistaken, would ultimately come from fuel.

[rambunctious]

I know, energy is conserved, and has to come from somewhere ( I'm an engineer)

but if there was more heat the whole time through insulated exhaust, or a heat elment right on the DPF... just thinking.....

Ramb

[ford_doctor]

Originally Posted by RRose

Is the DPF the only reason we have to run Ultra Low Sulfar Diesel in our trucks?

Yes, ULSD is required to prevent poisoning the DPF and from what I have read, the effects of LSD on a DPF are temporary. This means an accidental or emergency tankful will not cause permanent damage. There are however other things that you need to know.

Since CJ-4 oil is not formulated to neutralize the affects sulfur, using LSD with CJ-4 oil will allow the buildup of sulfuric acid which could cause serious oil deterioration and possible engine damage. It is important to use ULSD and CJ-4 oil together. This is important for ALL diesel owners to know.

CJ-4 oils have reduced phosphorus content which is necessary to prevent permanent damage to the catalyst and the DPF. Phosphorus affects the precious metal coatings of the substrate that cause the chemical reactions that clean up the exhaust gasses therefore using oil other than CJ-4 in your DPF equipped truck is also not recommended.

[RatherBNtheWoods]

Originally Posted by RRose

Is the DPF the only reason we have to run Ultra Low Sulfar Diesel in our trucks?

No. The 2007 MY trucks are required to run ULSD but do not have a DPF. The EPA set the limit on sulfur to minimize the sulfur in the exhaust. The EPA also lowered the limit on particulate emission so manufactures had to add a DPF.

By 2010 we will enjoy these benifits.

* 2.6 million tons of smog-causing nitrogen oxide emissions will be reduced each year.
* Soot or particulate matter will be reduced by 110,000 tons a year.
* An estimated 8,300 premature deaths, 5,500 cases of chronic bronchitis and 17,600 cases of acute bronchitis in children will be prevented annually.
* An estimated 360,000 asthma attacks and 386,000 cases of respiratory symptoms in asthmatic children will also be avoided every year.
* 1.5 million lost work days, 7,100 hospital visits and 2,400 emergency room visits for asthma will be prevented.

If you belive the EPA.

[AlbyVA]

Originally Posted by 7.3L F-250

i dont get it they made ULSD to help our enviornment but inturn were actally not helping it at all because with the ULSD you drop from like 14mpg to 8 (just random numbers) which is useing more fuel which is putting the same amount of sulfer into the air and eliminating our crude oil supply and jacking up the diesel price

where in there is helping our enviornment or our economy?

Thats Government for you... Always failing to look beyond the initial regulation into what side effects are created. We need a President who will get Government off our backs. Somebody bring Reagan back from the dead.