DPF question - Diesel Forum

thedieselkid · 12-20-2006, 03:52 PM

What type of servicing does the DPF require, and is before or after the turbos. Thats kinda weird reffering to a stock truck and saying turbos.

ford_doctor · 12-20-2006, 09:29 PM

The DPF goes through a regenerative process that burns off the collected soot. What is left by this process is ash, the non combustible materials from the fuel and engine oil and it will build up over time restricting the DPF.

Regeneration is basically done passively by the ECM during normal operation of the vehicle but may also be performed actively in the service bay. Regeneration is needed when a predetermined amount of back pressure is measured by the DPF pressure sensor. As for the ash cleaning, all I know from the training available at this time is that replacement of the DPF with a new or reman/cleaned unit will be the norm because cleaning equipment may not be a dealer item.

I have yet to see a factual service interval from ford so I cant tell you if there is one. Someone else may have seen some documentation on this. I assume that the need for this can be tested using our diagnostic equipment. I have completed the emissions certification for Caterpillar however, and their DPF ash cleaning procedure is targeted for a 150,000 mile interval for the CAT ACERT engines. The big factor here is how the vehicle is used and maintained. We should know more specifics on this in the next few months.

The DPF is downstream of the turbocharger and the diesel oxidation catalyst. You WILL NOT be able to modify the exhaust except for possibly the tail pipe which has resonator at the tips designed to mix cool air with the exhaust. That would be the square tabs cut and bent in at the tips which you may have seen photos of. I believe it's a safety issue.

thedieselkid · 12-20-2006, 09:40 PM

Thanks for explaning it to me. Check your PM's I have a question fo you.

sjprice · 12-21-2006, 04:18 AM

The DPF interval is 125,000 according to the fleet manager at the dealer where I just ordered my 08. It will be good for one regen and then will need to be replaced at 250K

mudguppy · 12-21-2006, 07:56 AM

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...It will be good for one regen and then will need to be replaced at 250K

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ok, so here's the question i want to know: who's paying for that? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/vulnerable.gif[/img]

fordmantpw · 12-21-2006, 08:20 AM

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...It will be good for one regen and then will need to be replaced at 250K

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ok, so here's the question i want to know: who's paying for that? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/vulnerable.gif[/img]

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Ummm, the truck owner? Who else? If your CAT goes out at 250K (or even 125K for that matter), who pays for it? I think emissions equipment has to be warranteed for 100K...after that, it's up to the owner.

mudguppy · 12-21-2006, 08:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
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...It will be good for one regen and then will need to be replaced at 250K

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ok, so here's the question i want to know: who's paying for that? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/vulnerable.gif[/img]

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Ummm, the truck owner? Who else? If your CAT goes out at 250K (or even 125K for that matter), who pays for it? I think emissions equipment has to be warranteed for 100K...after that, it's up to the owner.

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and that's while i'll be trying to figure out how to remove it....permanently. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img]

cats are expensive. what do you think it'll cost to replace a DPF? if i buy an '08 (for arguement's sake), i've paid quite a bit of extra cost for all this emissions crap and will have to live w/ the negatives of all that crap, so i for dang sure am not going to pay for another one when it goes out!! if you [the epa] say that i "must" have it, then you [the epa] can pay for the maintenance/replacement costs. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

ford_doctor · 12-21-2006, 08:40 AM

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The DPF interval is 125,000 according to the fleet manager at the dealer where I just ordered my 08. It will be good for one regen and then will need to be replaced at 250K

[/ QUOTE ]

Apparently the man you spoke with did not pay attention to "whatever" literature he read. The regeneration process occurs frequently and while you are using the vehicle. The regeneration process is what keeps the DPF clean, however, what is left behind from this process is a very minute amount of ash that in time builds up and can only be removed manually. It is THAT time frame we are discussing and the vehicle owner is responsible for the ash removal. But if the numbers he mentioned had anything to do with the subject 125,000 miles would not be a terribly bad interval but 250,000 miles would be much better. I wrote that I have not seen any documentation on this but maybe the early sales information has something... even if it is an "estimate" of between 125,000 and 250,000 miles, that would allow for variances in types of use and would be a believable number. I'll go ask...

Keep it simple:<ul type="square"> [*]Regeneration is the process that burns the collected soot(particulates)

<font color="white"> . </font> [*]Ash Cleaning or Ash Removal is the removal of the ash created by the regeneration process [/list]

OMCUSNR · 12-21-2006, 10:17 AM

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and that's while i'll be trying to figure out how to remove it....permanently.

cats are expensive. what do you think it'll cost to replace a DPF? if i buy an '08 (for arguement's sake), i've paid quite a bit of extra cost for all this emissions crap and will have to live w/ the negatives of all that crap, so i for dang sure am not going to pay for another one when it goes out!! if you [the epa] say that i "must" have it, then you [the epa] can pay for the maintenance/replacement costs.

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So, I take it the last gasoline powered vehicle you own was built in 1965? OH - I get it! You lease a new vehicle every 2 years!

You have a few choices. If you tamper with any of the emissions devices, you break the law and no longer have a legal vehicle to drive on a public road. You can have the used up unit replaced, or you can buy a whole new vehicle. Statements like the one you made in the quote show you don't live in S Carolina - you live in denial.

The government mandtes many unfunded rules & regulations that you pay for by taxes, fees & liscences. If you don't like it, try and convince the rest of your neighbors & associates to vote a congress critter out of office.

mudguppy · 12-21-2006, 10:45 AM

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...So, I take it the last gasoline powered vehicle you own was built in 1965?...

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no - 1979. but the wife's car is a '98.

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...OH - I get it! You lease a new vehicle every 2 years!

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nope. never leased a vehicle, never will.

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...Statements like the one you made in the quote show you don't live in S Carolina - you live in denial....

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no, i live in SC. what did that mean, anyway?

[ QUOTE ]
...The government mandtes many unfunded rules & regulations that you pay for by taxes, fees & liscences. If you don't like it, try and convince the rest of your neighbors & associates to vote a congress critter out of office.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img]

by the way, you're not a member of the Save the Mannatee club, are you?? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/phoney.gif[/img]

fullservice · 12-22-2006, 12:44 AM

You are free to remove any of the equipment you don't like or want on your own vehicle, however, if you get caught on a public road or highway by the wrong person, you may pay in fines an awful lot of money for exercising that freedom. When unleaded gasoline first came out and leaded gasoline was still available, there were companies that sold adapters to put on the leaded gas pump nozzles so you could put leaded gas in the small hole in the unleaded filler tube on your car or pickup. The EPA didn't do anything for awhile, then when they decided time was up they quickly convinced everyone not to do it any more. After a few people are hit with replacing a $5,000 DPF and a $10,000 fine for the privilege of doing so, no on else will take a chance, no matter how big they talked early on.

HoustonPerson · 12-22-2006, 07:20 AM

While I have managed about 500 fleet vehicles, I have only owned about 45 personal vehicles. Only 3 did I keep above 75,000 miles (one Acura and two Toyotas). Out of the 8 Fords, I have only owned "one" that made it do 40,000 miles (not that it broke; but most did - lol).

I will never have to worry about the DPF

kainers · 12-23-2006, 06:31 AM

I can't immagine what fuel economy is going to be with this regeneration process.

frobozz · 12-23-2006, 07:23 AM

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I can't immagine what fuel economy is going to be with this regeneration process.

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Why do people keep saying this? It's not the first thing I'd think of when hearing about DPFs, so where is this coming from? Every once in a while (days/weeks? Maybe months if you don't drive a lot?) the engine will have to raise EGTs by, among other things, squirting a tiny bit of extra fuel for a brief period of time. Why does everyone think that's going to have this cataclysmic affect on fuel economy? If it really concerns you, then one time a month when you're getting on an interstate entrance ramp, drive like your grandpa instead of Richard Petty, and you will likely have more than made up for the extra fuel from the regen process.

Duncan

ford_doctor · 12-23-2006, 09:33 AM

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I can't imagine what fuel economy is going to be with this regeneration process.

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Why do people keep saying this? It's not the first thing I'd think of when hearing about DPFs, so where is this coming from?

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Duncan, look where you are, do you REALLY have to ask? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]