horses mouth - Diesel Forum

44boggers · 08-27-2006, 09:55 PM

straight from a guy at the navistar plant here in huntsville alabama

international is discussing cutting the engine warrenty in half on the 08 engines due to alot of failure in the test mules due to high egts for clean emissions
glad i still got a 7.3

Parts Jimmy · 08-27-2006, 10:00 PM

If they do they will loose Ford in 2009. Believe it. Ford is working with Peugeot on diesel technology right now. Navistar had best stick to the warranty agreement. Is there a press release stating this or just a plant employee spouting off?

Ernest · 08-27-2006, 10:00 PM

I guess Ford will have to pick up the other half. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Parts Jimmy · 08-27-2006, 10:04 PM

I seriously doubt that. Ford's vendors are expected to stand behind the product that they manufacture for the advertised warranty period. Navistar is not immune to that policy.

cc1999 · 08-27-2006, 10:09 PM

I suspect that if there are issues with the 6.4 at the level they have had with the 6.0 then I would predict a cummins in the SD's future, thats provided ford survives another major blunder.

Wobblin-Goblin · 08-27-2006, 10:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I seriously doubt that. Ford's vendors are expected to stand behind the product that they manufacture for the advertised warranty period. Navistar is not immune to that policy.

[/ QUOTE ]

^
What he said.

44boggers · 08-27-2006, 10:10 PM

this is a fairly high up person their he is often at the local dealers to guage feedback on powerstrokes and check out unfamialar issues such as the wiring problems with the 03's
ford is rushing them to get everything in place for production they have asked for more time but ford is pushing and the first run may have alot of issues
they said navistar (this being a new moter can change warrenty if needed) navistar is worried about having to eat alot of failed engines and turbos they have disengrated turbos on over have of their test mules and even faster when loaded down to simulate gvw maxed

not trying to start a war but thats what is being said here close to the plant if they have a warrenty for 100k then it may end up being a prorated deal

Ernest · 08-27-2006, 10:19 PM

Off topic, but I remember a fellow member in here telling a story about a 6 liter test mule in Colorado. He claimed to have talked to a test driver and that fellow told him to hold on before purchasing a new 6.0 because of injector problems. Well, loudmouth me challenged the report and insisted that Ford would fix a known problem prior to release. Boy was I WRONG!

So, let's see what happens, but as a true blue Ford fan, FOMOC can not afford another diesel disaster. Plenty other choices out there, well, at least 2 so far.

4drdually · 08-27-2006, 11:08 PM

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I suspect that if there are issues with the 6.4 at the level they have had with the 6.0 then I would predict a cummins in the SD's future, thats provided ford survives another major blunder.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cummins? Who wants that!!! Lets get a cat motor. A C7 would fit real nice and Ford would sell them like hot cakes. Cat is the new hot item now.

rrangus · 08-28-2006, 08:19 AM

Lets see! Hmmm. A C7 with the headgasket problems, oil leaks that come with it. Plus a premium that Cat charges for the yellow paint and decals. Would an additional $7,500 be enough to charge extra? I have dealt with the predecessors (3116 and 3126). The C7 is just another piece of garbage with another badge

cc1999 · 08-28-2006, 09:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I suspect that if there are issues with the 6.4 at the level they have had with the 6.0 then I would predict a cummins in the SD's future, thats provided ford survives another major blunder.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cummins? Who wants that!!! Lets get a cat motor. A C7 would fit real nice and Ford would sell them like hot cakes. Cat is the new hot item now.

[/ QUOTE ]

As much as I too would like a cat in my SD, and would be willing to pay real premium for it over the PSD. I predicted the cummins do to the ownership Ford has of the cummins corporation. With DC talking possably going to MB diesel motors in the future, that move may leave enough production capacity for cummins to be able to gear up to supply its parent company the motors for the SD trucks. But man I would bet a baby CAT in a SD would sell like crazy even if the motor was a 8000.00 option I think it would sell very well.

If Ford wanted to really up the stakes in the 3/4-1.5 ton market they could start offering engine trans combo's like cats and cummins with 6 speed ally's trans as options. Just like the do in the F650-F750 class.

Example
6.4 L Navstar w/ 5 speed auto ford trans $5000.00
??? Cat w/ 6 speed auto alley trans $8000.00
??? Cummins w/ 6 speed auto alley trans $ 6900.00

Something like that anyway. With the Superduty Chassis to work with, I do not see why these other motors and trans setups would not work just great with it.

**drford** · 08-28-2006, 09:59 AM

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If they do they will loose Ford in 2009. Believe it. Ford is working with Peugeot on diesel technology right now. Navistar had best stick to the warranty agreement. Is there a press release stating this or just a plant employee spouting off?

[/ QUOTE ]

weel i do not know about you but have you ever worked on a peugot ? the worst thing ever I have seen 2 test engines in the yukon canada one was a perkins ( wich is owned by caterpillar ) and another was a detroit with a volvo injection system

i6DZUL · 08-28-2006, 10:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
As much as I too would like a cat in my SD, and would be willing to pay real premium for it over the PSD. I predicted the cummins do to the ownership Ford has of the cummins corporation. With DC talking possably going to MB diesel motors in the future, that move may leave enough production capacity for cummins to be able to gear up to supply its parent company the motors for the SD trucks.

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Obviously, you've been out of touch for awhile. How long do you think Ford has owned Cummins?? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Tell me, if Ford owns Cummins, why in the world have they not given Navistar their walking papers? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]

"Parent company"...funny.

i6DZUL · 08-28-2006, 10:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If they do they will loose Ford in 2009. Believe it. Ford is working with Peugeot on diesel technology right now. Navistar had best stick to the warranty agreement. Is there a press release stating this or just a plant employee spouting off?

[/ QUOTE ]

If it's anything like the Peugeot diesel [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/vomit.gif[/img] my sis-in-law had, then heaven help Ford.

**brett_kartracer** · 08-28-2006, 11:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
straight from a guy at the navistar plant here in huntsville alabama

international is discussing cutting the engine warrenty in half on the 08 engines due to alot of failure in the test mules due to high egts for clean emissions
glad i still got a 7.3

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm. I wouldn't think that High EGTs are the issue because if the temperatures are overly high, the engines would be creating too much Oxides of Nitrogen (which is a worry when it comes to emissions).

If that is the case though, I have absolutely no respect for engineers. I had very little respect to start with, but if they can't come up with a way to fix EGT and turbo failures any other way than dumping the warranty, then they are more stupid than I though.

First of all, the particulate trap shouldn't be creating so much back pressure that it causes a rise in exhaust gas temperatures (because it would hurt mileage and emission if it did that).

Second, the engines could use an electronic back down feature (for fuel delivery) if EGT's get out of control.

Third, they could use a water injection system and tout it to the public as a performance and emissions upgrade.

I'm not saying that you did not actually hear this information, but the international guy you talked to might just be upset with his job!