6.4L Power Stroke Engine and DrivetrainDiscussion of the 6.4L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 2008 Super-Duty trucks. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 6.4L Power Stroke engine.
Ford is in this mode of "we have to have more" so they tune their own electronics to run much higher HP ratings. Ad to that they do a lousing job on aerodynamics (check your mpg at 55 versus 75 on the interstate) and don't ventilate under the hood to cool everything and you have what you have.
A bunch of us at the 04 PSD Rally spent 2 hours explaining a lot of this to the SD Marketing Manager and I suspect others have in subsequent years.
Yup, and up until here recently the cost of fuel wasnt an Issue...but with Diesel over $4 a gallon I bet you will see all of the manufacturers worrying more about aero and less on the manliness of their trucks!
take a look at the HP/Torque ratings for the IH versions of the Ford Powerstrokes, where they are used etc. Then look at the same engine sold as a Powerstroke by Ford. Then the reliability of the IH version versus the Ford.
Very true, but remember Ford told IH what they wanted in an engine and what they were going to do with it. It looks to me like IH didn't build the engine well enough to stand up to what Ford was doing (6.0 only). I have trouble faulting Ford for it. I believe they are to blame for an inferior EGR system though.
The aerodynamics issue is not limited to Ford. Pretty much all of my friends who run other brands of diesel trucks have the same problems. Great fuel mileage below 65 or maybe 70, above that it goes to pot.
I'm sure Ford would love to build an emissions compliant engine that would get 20mpg, but so far they can't. I've read plenty of posts on the Duramax and Cummins forums from guys who get horrible mpg out of their engines just like some of us are with the 6.0/6.4s.
When the Tier IV emission restrictions come into play on the new 6.7L, you are going to wish you had a 6.4L and only had "just" a DPF to remove.
Currently with my DPF/DOC delete, SCT 158 tuned, S&B intake and MBRP piped 6.4L, I'm seeing well over 20 MPG highway if I behave. It was pretty easy to do. We might not be so lucky next time..
Ford learned their lesson with the 6.0 introduction, they did a great job of testing the 6.4 to make sure it didn't flop, I would say they will do the same with the 6.7, they are going to put those motors through their paces and ford is not going to try and sell us a dog of a motor either, they have always been very good at upping the anty (SP?). I hope they make it more tuneable, the powerstrokes have been so much more difficult to get power out of than the cummins and duramax motors. I also wish ford would offer a v8 diesel as well as an I6 torque monster. Why not offer more than one diesel? They offer different gas engines and diesels outsell gas in the super duty market by a ton. I will always buy ford trucks but I would love a cummins type motor in the SD.
Are their any power numbers out yet on what the Scorpion will have? I don't know about the rest of you guys but I like the fact that ford changes diesels and looks, it gets boring when you have the same stuff for so long, just ask the GM guys, GM doesn't change their stuff often enough. i was just as excited as the rest of the die hard ford guys when they introduced the 08, there was so much to learn about it and I look forward to the next redesign to see what the engineers at ford have thought of next.
Ford wishes it could settle on one diesel engine. The 7.3 died because of stricter emissions, as did the 6.0. Now to meet emissions they have the 6.4, but due to problems with IH they must once again move on.
If emissions would allow it Ford would still be using the 7.3
The diesel truck market has been evolving for 20 years. I drove a ford F350 diesel in 1990 and that truck is basically a dinosaur in todays market. What every one expects now from a diesel truck is completely different from a decade or 2 ago. Ford is evolving with it. Now a diesel truck has to have twice the towing power it used to and 10 times the comfort level. It has to be a luxury car and a serious work truck at the same time. Plus, everyone wants the off the line giddy-up of the gassers and the same driveability of an SUV. If Ford stood still in this ever changing market they would be dead.
Dave
take a look at the HP/Torque ratings for the IH versions of the Ford Powerstrokes, where they are used etc. Then look at the same engine sold as a Powerstroke by Ford. Then the reliability of the IH version versus the Ford.
Ford is in this mode of "we have to have more" so they tune their own electronics to run much higher HP ratings. Ad to that they do a lousing job on aerodynamics (check your mpg at 55 versus 75 on the interstate) and don't ventilate under the hood to cool everything and you have what you have.
A bunch of us at the 04 PSD Rally spent 2 hours explaining a lot of this to the SD Marketing Manager and I suspect others have in subsequent years.
Are you going to buy an F250 with a dog of a motor instead of one of the other brands that have 350+ hp? Ford is doing it right IMO.
The diesel truck market has been evolving for 20 years. I drove a ford F350 diesel in 1990 and that truck is basically a dinosaur in todays market. What every one expects now from a diesel truck is completely different from a decade or 2 ago. Ford is evolving with it. Now a diesel truck has to have twice the towing power it used to and 10 times the comfort level. It has to be a luxury car and a serious work truck at the same time. Plus, everyone wants the off the line giddy-up of the gassers and the same driveability of an SUV. If Ford stood still in this ever changing market they would be dead.
Dave
Whether the "Scorpian 6.7" replaces the 6.4 in future years is the least of my worries. So what if the 6.4 gets replaced in a few years. I don't give a thought that the Duramax or Cummins has been around for a long time, I don't care much for the Dodge or Chevy/GMC trucks that the engine carries. If indeed the SuperDuty does comes with a new 6.7 engine some day, and it turns out to be somehow better, than I may buy it. The 6.4 is turning out to be an excellant engine, it does everything I ask it to do, plus it is carried by the best heavy duty pickup on the market. When I buy a truck or car, resale value is not a determining factor. Ride, comfort, convenience, efficiency and how the vehicle strikes me in the looks department are what I am shooting for. If Ford did not update their trucks, go for the best items available to stuff in them, then I would not have anything to look forward to.
This is true that is WHY they are the leader in The Heavy Duty pickup market.They basically set the Bar and others copie or imitate they set it higher with something else.They may have lost some market share but they continue to be the top dog.
It's no about "updating" folks.
What you are going to get with the 6.7L is an engine that meets Tier IV emissions.
Currently, the 6.4L uses compund turbos, and they're not because of greater power and torque.. They are there to push over 40 lbs of boost to run the emissions equipment. 40+ lbs, and they suffer from horrible turbo lag because of the plugged up flow......
I dare say that this is my last diesel.
Someone please tell me that they actually believe that even stricter emissions will give us a more powerful, smoother, more fuel efficient engine to look forward to...
Personally, I don't think so..
I say put a CAT in the Ford and there will be no complaints and your getting the best engine out there. It's less work for Ford and I think you'll see some Duramax/ Cummins guys coming to our side. It just sounds so good, a CAT powered Superduty.
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02 F-350 Lariat 4x4,CC, 4" Skyjacker lift, 5" exhaust, AFE Stage 2 intake, Diablosport Predator, ATS Torque Pro 2000, Ranchand front/rear bumper, 35" Toyo Open County M/T tires,
Someone please tell me that they actually believe that even stricter emissions will give us a more powerful, smoother, more fuel efficient engine to look forward to...
Personally, I don't think so..
I certainly dont believe it will help, govt regulations rarely do!
I will be in the market for a 1 ton truck soon for hauling dutys and I cant decide if I will go with a diesel or a V-10...guess it depends what the diesel market looks like.
Someone please tell me that they actually believe that even stricter emissions will give us a more powerful, smoother, more fuel efficient engine to look forward to...
Personally, I don't think so..
I'm more optimistic about development than you are. I have some classic cars from the times of little regulation. A '66 GT350 really isn't very reliable, smooth or efficient. I'm sure it polutes like a smokestack. A new post regulations basic Mustang GT will blow the doors off of the GT350 while getting +20MPG on the highway. I think is better in every way. My first 7.3 is still in the family and everytime I drive it I like it less. Noisy, smelly, less responsive and not that much less thirsty.
I think the diesels will only get better.
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'08 F350 cc SRW 4x4 white/stone
Last edited by BoulderGT3 : 06-15-2008 at 10:48 AM.
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