Manual or Auto?

[tfunk88]

Ok, I'm sure this debate has happened here before, but...it never hurts to ask again, right? I am going to buy a 2008 F450 6.4 4x4. It will be used 85-90% of the time to tow, 15-20k lbs, possibly a few thousand more. There will be times when I will drive it without a trailer, but it will be kept to a minimum. Would a 4x2 give me better fuel economy? Yes. Will I curse like a sailor and kick myself in the a$$ the one time 4x4 would have helped if I don't get it? YES!!! So, the question is, manual or auto tranny and why. Here's how I see it so far:

Manual Pros:
better fuel economy-how much better I'm not sure
better control of engine/trans during towing
more involving to drive
cheaper
typically more reliable

Manual Cons:
hard to find at dealers/private sale
more involving to drive (traffic can suck ace!)
do i really want to shift gears after a long weekend out in the heat?
can't get the captains chairs with center console (picky, but I like them MUCH better than the regular 40/20/40 split, and the center console is awesome!)
i've heard a new clutch is $2500?
rated to tow less

Automatic Pros:
more fun to drive than I expected
stick it in "D" and go
can get captains chairs
easy to find at dealers/private sale
rated to tow more

Automatic Cons:
worse fuel economy-how much I'm not sure
heard of gear hunting even in tow/haul mode
umm...slower? but probably not really
possibly less reliable?
possible replacement cost down the line

I know the tow ratings are pretty much a crock (how could they not be? Once the 4.88 was out of production the 4.30 "magically" gained 4k lbs of towing ability), but it always something to consider.

Thanks to anyone who reads this whole thing and replies!

[OMCUSNR]

Originally Posted by tfunk88

Ok, I'm sure this debate has happened here before, but...it never hurts to ask again, right? I am going to buy a 2008 F450 6.4 4x4. It will be used 85-90% of the time to tow, 15-20k lbs, possibly a few thousand more. There will be times when I will drive it without a trailer, but it will be kept to a minimum. Would a 4x2 give me better fuel economy? Yes. Will I curse like a sailor and kick myself in the a$$ the one time 4x4 would have helped if I don't get it? YES!!! So, the question is, manual or auto tranny and why. Here's how I see it so far:

Manual Pros:
better fuel economy
better control of engine/trans during towing
more involving to drive
cheaper
typically more reliable

Manual Cons:
hard to find at dealers/private sale
more involving to drive (traffic can suck ace!)
do i really want to shift gears after a long weekend out in the heat?
can't get the captains chairs with center console (picky, but I like them MUCH better than the regular 40/20/40 split)
i've heard a new clutch is $2500?
rated to tow less

Automatic Pros:
more fun to drive than I expected
stick it in "D" and go
can get captains chairs
easy to find at dealers/private sale
rated to tow more

Automatic Cons:
worse fuel economy
heard of gear hunting even in tow/haul mode
umm...slower? but probably not really
possibly less reliable?
possible replacement cost down the line

I know the tow ratings are pretty much a crock (how could they not be? Once the 4.88 was out of production the 4.30 "magically" gained 4k lbs of towing ability), but it always something to consider.

Thanks to anyone who reads this whole thing and replies!

I think the biggest downside to the manual is the "rated: tow capacity. I like the manual in my 6.0, and I don't do much traffic driving.

One thing you might consider with the seats: look for a set of aftermarkets that will fit, or put a short shifter in to shorten the throw & stick OEM captains chairs in from a wreck??

OMC

[DXprowler]

Myself and a few others with the 40-20-40 seats on this forum have picked up center counsels off Ebay. One guy had a handshacker and had to modify the mounts to get it back a bit. I think he made the holes bigger or stretched them where needed.

I commute occasionally so an auto is automatic for me but I wonder how much difference a handshacker would make with mpg with a 4x4. It might be marginal at best?? I think if your really concerned about mileage you should get the handshacker and the 4x2 to substantially cut down on the weight.

I do find that the Torqshift does a get job towing but I guess it boils down to personal preference!

[zacknolden]

With today's sky-rocketing oil prices manual has better fuel economy but I would still go for the automatic option. Thanks!
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[UApilot]

Do the new '08s have exhaust brakes or manual thumb shift like the Dodges do? Just curious, I know nothing about the Torqshift.

[DXprowler]

No exhaust brake on a Ford! With Tow/Haul and braking the transmission downshifts which works well.

[timid1]

2WD might not save you as much fuel as you think it will. I have 2WD and get anywhere between 12 and 14 MPG, and I ride with the big rigs most of the time! 55 mph is the sweet spot. Any faster than 65 mph, I get 12 MPG on the dot.

[UApilot]

Originally Posted by DXprowler

No exhaust brake on a Ford! With Tow/Haul and braking the transmission downshifts which works well.

Thanks, I wasn't sure!

[NickBeek]

Actually since '03 if you have the torqueshift you have an exhaust brake of sorts. In the same way the 6.7 dodge does. They both use the VG turbo to give exhaust braking.

As far as auto vs manual. I owned a '99 F250 with the hand shaker (ZF 6 spped) and an '04 F250 with the auto (torqueshift). MY OPINION, the manual is better in every respect, especially reliability. I also hated the shift points in T/H with the auto. Again just my opinion.

[UApilot]

Originally Posted by NickBeek

Actually since '03 if you have the torqueshift you have an exhaust brake of sorts. In the same way the 6.7 dodge does. They both use the VG turbo to give exhaust braking.

That's what I thought but how is it activated?

[torino73]

Running a stick in heavy traffic ain't that hard if you know how to drive one- I do it all the time. If you are trying to drink coffee, eat, read the paper, and talk on the cell phone, yeah it may cramp your style a bit. Also, I'm not buying the $2500 price tag on a clutch. That may be the cost installed at a dealer, but I'd lean more towards $1000 for parts- but I have never priced one. A clutch should last 100K miles if you don't abuse it.

Have you ever driven a 4x2 diesel? The LS rears on these trucks are junk. Unless you come off the coin to put a posi locker in the rear end, you will get stuck on a wet road. I highly recommend 4x4. Good luck on whatever you decide.

[DXprowler]

Originally Posted by UApilot

That's what I thought but how is it activated?

Guys... there is NO exhaust braking with the Ford diesel, the braking effect is done with gearing using the Torqshift! From http://media.ford.com article_display.cfm?article_id=13619

Quote: "The tow-haul feature senses when conditions call for increased engine braking and automatically schedules the appropriate downshift. This grade-braking feature functions in concert with speed control to help maintain the desired vehicle speed while descending grades." and "During downhill runs, a tap on the brake signals tow-haul, triggering downshifts as appropriate to slow the vehicle. The driver experiences greater control and reduced need for downhill braking."

[macmaniac1]

A friend of mine had a clutch replaced for $600. It will be alittle more for a high performance model. He had an luk clutch installed. This is alot cheaper that a auto tranny rebuild or replacement. Again you get better fuel economy.
As far as being rated to tow less than the auto I say is hogwash. A friend of mine towed heavy(sometimes 10,000lbs over with a 5'ver dump trailer) alot with his manual tranny. He sold the truck to another farmer who also towed heavy. The new owner changed the clutch and flywheel at 110,000 miles. He bought a new truck with a auto and had to have 5 tranny's replaced by the time he traded it in with around 90,000 miles on it. He towed the same trailer and same wt. The dealer told me that the company rates the auto higher in tow capacity as it is designed to fail in abusive situations and is less likely to hurt the rest of the drivetrain. Not to mention the dealer gets the money from the repair bill because they tend to fail anyway from average use over time. Especially if they slip the tranny too much or don't watch the temp.
My truck has 220,000 and the manual trans is still fine. The only thing I have done with the tranny since I have had the truck is changed the fluid to amsoil synthetic. That was around 50,000 mies ago.
You can ask anyone that has had a manual that shifting becomes second nature after awhile. You don't think of it, not even threw traffic.

[GOPDiesel]

I like my manual because you can choose your gear. I agree that it does become second nature and you don't really think about it. I can still drink some java or use the cell, you just have practice and switch hands sometimes. IF I even have a trans issue, I know it will cost no where near what an Auto would cost to fix.

Pat

[NickBeek]

DX, when the Torqueshift downshifts the computer also manipulates the vanes in the VG turbo to create back pressure AKA exhaust braking.