PROBLEM PICS- Help Needed - Diesel Forum

greggara · 07-21-2009, 10:31 AM

I have brought my truck into service multiple times for the overfull oil and was told I let it idle too much. The other mechanic informed me there was no codes so no problem.

I figured the engine would break at some point and I believe it has. I changed the oil last night and got the usual 23 quarts out but noticed oil dripping from the engine so I got the camera out.

This is the bottom drivers side of the engine. I believe it is some kind of turbo line and manifold?
I dont know what I am looking at so some help would be appreciated.

I want to know what possibly could be wrong so the dealer doesnt try to tell me its normal.

FYI the engine has 31000 miles.

Gofaster23 · 07-21-2009, 05:17 PM

Complete engine time! That is engine oil and fuel leaking through the gasket seams. Looks like that overfull crankcase made it's way into the engine. I'd take a wild guess and say the pistons in cylinders 2 and 8 are melted/starting to melt. The truck can run well, with no noticeable drivability problems with melted pistons BTW. If you were taking it in with the crankcase consistantly overfull each time (by this much) and they told you it was normal I would find another dealer.

timid1 · 07-22-2009, 08:36 AM

I read 23 quarts of oil. What?

greggara · 07-22-2009, 09:03 AM

Unfortunatley 23 quarts is correct. This has been happening since new.

What would make pistons melt?

senix · 07-22-2009, 09:09 AM

get another dealer, this is a big issue. provide documentation that Ford is the one doing the oil changes.

Take it to a new dealer and avoid the old one all together.

wp6529 · 07-22-2009, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greggara

Unfortunatley 23 quarts is correct. This has been happening since new.

What would make pistons melt?

Out of curiosity, how are you measuring the oil? I only managed to get a 15qt capacity drain pan, so if I get more than that I'll have a flood. Only done one change so far (to M1 5W-40 TD).

Gofaster23 · 07-23-2009, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greggara

Unfortunatley 23 quarts is correct. This has been happening since new.

What would make pistons melt?

The pistons seem to melt on the left bank only, due to the design of the intake. When the engine oil level gets too overfull, it begins to get sucked back into the engine and collects in the charge air cooler. That's why I asked you to remove the hot side lower CAC hose because that is the lowest point in the system where the oil/fuel collects. Once the oil and fuel mixture are in the CAC, it doesn't take long for it to run through the cooler, into the cold side tube, and then into the engine where it follows the intake into the left bank. The oil/fuel gets sucked into the cylinders and burned up with the fuel being sprayed from the injectors. Any excess goes out the exhaust and drips out of any gasket seam. It's leaking from the left side exhaust manifold to turbo inlet pipe gasket in the picture above. All of this extra oil/fuel being burned in the cylinders causes them to get extremely hot, melt the pistons, damage the cylinder walls, melt the cylinder heads, glow plug tips, injector tips, sends metal through out the engine. Just gather up all of your maintance records for proof because that is the first thing they will ask for. That is the second pin point test for engine oil overfull concerns, "Is scheduled maintance performed on time?". If yes, everything should be under warranty.

greggara · 07-23-2009, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gofasterdammit

The pistons seem to melt on the left bank only, due to the design of the intake. When the engine oil level gets too overfull, it begins to get sucked back into the engine and collects in the charge air cooler. That's why I asked you to remove the hot side lower CAC hose because that is the lowest point in the system where the oil/fuel collects. Once the oil and fuel mixture are in the CAC, it doesn't take long for it to run through the cooler, into the cold side tube, and then into the engine where it follows the intake into the left bank. The oil/fuel gets sucked into the cylinders and burned up with the fuel being sprayed from the injectors. Any excess goes out the exhaust and drips out of any gasket seam. It's leaking from the left side exhaust manifold to turbo inlet pipe gasket in the picture above. All of this extra oil/fuel being burned in the cylinders causes them to get extremely hot, melt the pistons, damage the cylinder walls, melt the cylinder heads, glow plug tips, injector tips, sends metal through out the engine. Just gather up all of your maintance records for proof because that is the first thing they will ask for. That is the second pin point test for engine oil overfull concerns, "Is scheduled maintance performed on time?". If yes, everything should be under warranty.

Thanks for the info. Very interesting.

Ford has known about this problem for over a year now and its documented. I have been sending samples to blackstone every 3000 miles. The truck loses all its power around 2800-3000 miles into the oil change.

Gofaster23 · 07-23-2009, 10:41 AM

Just curious, what's the name of the dealer? Is it a smaller dealer or a part of a dealer group? That's really bad if this has been going on for a year and they tell you it's normal.

greggara · 07-23-2009, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wp6529

Out of curiosity, how are you measuring the oil? I only managed to get a 15qt capacity drain pan, so if I get more than that I'll have a flood. Only done one change so far (to M1 5W-40 TD).

I have a 20 quart drain pan but it holds more. I then empty the oil back into the empty oil containers and a couple milk jugs.

greggara · 07-24-2009, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gofasterdammit

Just curious, what's the name of the dealer? Is it a smaller dealer or a part of a dealer group? That's really bad if this has been going on for a year and they tell you it's normal.

1 dealership mechanic told me that it takes 16 quarts, there are no codes so nothing is wrong and that I let it idle too much and thats why there is fuel in there. I called Ford to escalate the situation and they called this dealership. This dealership told Ford I refused service on the truck in the form of an oil change. Needless to say I wont be going back there for a thing.

Another dealership claims to have replaced an injector nozzle. I didnt recieve any paperwork so I called ford and was told that the dealership couldnt find anything wrong with the truck. Lost the truck for a week and nothing happened.

I called another local dealership and when I explained what was happening I was told it was impossible and that the oil would be shooting out the tailpipe. Guy was being kinda fresh with me so I hung up.

The last place I called I talked to a service guy and explained what is happening and was asked why I would have fuel in the oil. I told him that is the reason I was calling. He put me on hold came back on the line, said something doesnt sound right and hung up.

After that I gave up. I am in contact with Ford again and they seem serious this time. Lets hope.

greggara · 07-24-2009, 09:34 AM

Oh and when I tell the dealerships I have been sending in oil reports they say they dont know what that means. I usually get "sorry sir but I dont know what you are referring to."

FMTRVT · 07-24-2009, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greggara

Oh and when I tell the dealerships I have been sending in oil reports they say they don't know what that means. I usually get "sorry sir but I don't know what you are referring to."

Unfortunately that is true with any car based dealerships. It is only with fleets and OTR trucks where it is normal to have oil analysis done. The typical Ford service person has no history or training in reading and diagnosing oil analysis. You might as well ask your dentist to look at a chest X-Ray.

greggara · 08-03-2009, 11:09 AM

Update:

Brought the truck in on Thursday and just got a call today asking if I was using bio diesel.

He said the truck has no codes and is running fine. He explained the cause of the oil leak being a leaking glow plug o ring.

Would that cause the oil leak in the picture?

He has no explanation why the oil is overfull.

rlchv70 · 08-03-2009, 01:07 PM

Your pictures appear to be upside down.

The oil leak in the pictures could be from the glow plug harness. It would drip down.

Fuel gets in the oil 3 ways. Internal fuel leak from injector plumbing, stuck open injector, or DPF regens.

During a regen, the ECU adjusts engine operating parameters to increase the exhaust gas temperatures. One of those methods is through post-injection. If you spend a lot of time idling or driving slowly during the regen, then it has to increase the amount of post-injection.

With that much fuel, though, I would suspect an internal fuel leak.