Tech training - Diesel Forum

KevinK · 12-01-2006, 07:45 PM

I would hope that the Ford techs are receiving a lot of training on the 6.4 at this point. Is that true? It seems like a significant percentage of the early 6.0 problems were due to the lack of training at the time they were released.

Thanks,
Kevin

frobozz · 12-01-2006, 08:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would hope that the Ford techs are receiving a lot of training on the 6.4 at this point. Is that true? It seems like a significant percentage of the early 6.0 problems were due to the lack of training at the time they were released.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ford certainly talks a good game about addressing that very issue, in this presentation here:

http://www.backglass.org/duncan/ps64_manual/

Only time will tell if they really mean it.

Duncan

jbdawson · 12-04-2006, 09:52 AM

Not to be a kill joy, but what evidence over the life of the 6.0 do we have that things will be different. Really good 6.0 techs are still near impossible to find after 5 years and FOMOCO is in worse shape than ever. From what I read, if the 6.4 turns out to be the nightmare the 6.0 was, there may not be a FOMOCO in the future. On the + side , my '05 6.0 has been trouble free from day one.(that knocking you here is me pounding a piece of wood). Personally I hope the 6.4 is a roaring success cause I thnk, over all, the super duty is the neatest truck on the market.

jmcholden · 12-04-2006, 01:16 PM

I think Ford knows that can't afford another nightmare like the 6.0L unveiling. Perhaps that why they are slow to release the 6.4L?
I have always owned Fords and I realy hope they don't screw this one up?

AllOutFirefighter13 · 12-04-2006, 04:45 PM

I believe Ford knows they were premature in launching the 6.0L campaign. It wasn't fully tested and some of the problems it had were probably diagnosed by engineers going into the field and analyzing what they found. I know this is not new to anyone on this board. I think they were somewhat fighting against the components they used. It also appears that they are taking steps to make sure the shortcomings of the 6.0L are well addressed with the 6.4L. If you think about it, the 6.0L was the first LD engine for for to implement EGR and also the first LD engine to use VGT technology for Ford. The 6.4L may not be the same engine as the 6.0L but from a general perspective, it uses this same technology as the 6.0L. I believe that the technicians at the time of the introduction of the 6.0L could not get the proper training b/c the engineers themselves weren't prepared for the problems the 6.0L has had. Now that they have done more testing and are acquanted with this newer technology, hopefully it won't be difficult to teach the technicians what they need to know. And I, for one, hope that Ford does better when choosing companies to make things like the EGR valve (which they have supposedly done - there was a thread on this), VGT actuator, etc. We cannot say what will be of the 6.4L, but we sure can say what we don't want it to be!

Later,

**KINGTUT** · 12-04-2006, 05:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would hope that the Ford techs are receiving a lot of training on the 6.4 at this point. Is that true? It seems like a significant percentage of the early 6.0 problems were due to the lack of training at the time they were released.

Thanks,
Kevin

[/ QUOTE ]

What? Most of the problems were because Ford released a piece of junk prematurely. It had nothing to do with the tech's. They were innocent victims of Fords guinea pig approach to the release. Yeah, there was a learning curve, but the "significant percentage of early 6.0 problems" were due to the junk Ford put out not the techs. How could the techs be responsible for all of the oil leaks, the countless re-flashes, and all of the other of the dozens and dozens of TSB's that were put out on the engine. Lets be clear what caused the problems and it was not the tech's.

KevinK · 12-04-2006, 07:23 PM

I'm not blaming the techs at all. Being effective requires a significant amount of training. I have read countless threads about taking a 6.0l truck in for service and the techs have no idea what to do and end up shotgunning a problem or making it worse.

Kevin

horses2 · 12-04-2006, 09:15 PM

Fact in the auto world is there is not enough qualified young blood entering the field, and at the same time, many good techs are done with the dealer/factory tug & pull that makes their paycheck a crap shoot.
Being a diesel tech is not the same as a gasser tech. The current fact is if you dont get along with computers, you ain't going to be a diesel tech. You aint going to be much of a gasser tech, but you can check for spark with a screw driver. or a green pea helper. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img].Gasser systems dont use fuel and or oil systems with the pressures, and sensitivity to pressures current diesels use. 4 or 5 psi, some air & your gasser goes.
In my biz, I see a lot of techs come & go; suffice to say, just because they went to class, it doesnt make them an expert. Just like any school, you have the wiz kids, and the ones who just squeaked by.
The good 6.4 techs are already out there. They are the good 6.0 techs, who are also the good 7.3 techs.
New motor and all the training can't ensure motivation, desire & committment.
New motor & training, can't replace a dealer owner who pays his quality tech a quality wage.

Sorry about the rant, hits close to home when the subject turns to public perception about techs, dealers & repairs.

Richter69 · 12-04-2006, 10:00 PM

no schools yet for me, but I did not go to any on the 6.0 either until a year after I had already been fixing them. I have no doubts that I will be able to fix whatever Ford throws at me. And yeah I make more than anybody in the shop, except the other diesel tech.

djshum · 12-05-2006, 12:03 AM

There is online courses that will need completing before the classroom training. The online courses will be available December 15. Dealers have 1 year to get diesel techs trained on 6.4.

**KINGTUT** · 12-05-2006, 12:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not blaming the techs at all. Being effective requires a significant amount of training. I have read countless threads about taking a 6.0l truck in for service and the techs have no idea what to do and end up shotgunning a problem or making it worse.

Kevin

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I just don't agree with you, if they don't receive proper training it is not their fault. Blame Ford not the tech's. The 6.0 release debacle was Fords insanity not the dealers nor the tech's. Hopefully, the 6.4 will not be the same result. If a manufacturer releases an engine and they have no dealer network to work on them they are negligent, and have no concern for the consumer. I know several manufacturers that a tech can call a hot line and get an answer immediately, I mean immediately to any problem they encounter from folks who know the inside of the particular vehicle to the outside like they made it themselves.

2006CTDAUTO · 12-05-2006, 04:07 AM

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Fact in the auto world is there is not enough qualified young blood entering the field, and at the same time, many good techs are done with the dealer/factory tug & pull that makes their paycheck a crap shoot.

[/ QUOTE ]

BINGO!

And yeah, school won't help at all if you still don't "get it". The function of the schools is to saturate the market with cheap, *relatively* skilled cheap labor.

Very few people entering the field are professionals at heart. They are pizza boys who found out they could make more money as an auto mechanic.

Whether the general public wants to acknowledge it or not, fixing cars RIGHT requires skilled labor that you can't just take off the street. Those that do have the skills to do the job properly generally have one foot out the door ready to move onto something else.

The Auto repair business is the only business where your are punished for taking your time and doing it right. LOL....Ok maybe it's not that bad, but being a good tech takes a lot of will power when people around you are being rewarded for doing the job as quick and as minimally as possible which in flatrateland equals a larger paycheck, while managers continue to make excuses for them simply because they can produce. You then have other managers that give the best techs the worst paying jobs(like 6.0 repairs) so again, the guy doing the hardest jobs that require the most skill are punished when they recieve their paychecks.

I could rant for hours on this topic. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Regardless, if you look in the "pre" 6.4 bible you can see where Ford has specifically addressed the training issue. The WDS and all the service manuals must be in the dealership and ready to go before they can start selling trucks and the dealer must meet a certain training standard at a defined time period after they start selling trucks.

If they don't, the shop is required go through lengthy steps and get prior approval before any repairs, etc.

IBUILD · 12-05-2006, 09:30 AM

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.....I could rant for hours on this topic..... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

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No way...not YOU!!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]

YODA · 12-05-2006, 10:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would hope that the Ford techs are receiving a lot of training on the 6.4 at this point. Is that true? It seems like a significant percentage of the early 6.0 problems were due to the lack of training at the time they were released.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ford certainly talks a good game about addressing that very issue, in this presentation here:

http://www.backglass.org/duncan/ps64_manual/

Only time will tell if they really mean it.

Duncan

[/ QUOTE ]

Have all of you folks looked at this. I am impressed with the changes. It even looks like they made things accessible to the service folks and gave new tools to the Docs on diagnosing. I can see the aftermarket having a field day with the exhaust though.

Upside - power curves look good, especially on the bottom end. Also max HP and Torque are very good in the full hill climbing band or about 3000. Interior looks good too. I like the dark leather. Oil change intervals up too. EGR problem seems cured as well as plugged EGR coolers. Wiring harness is now IH or real OEM. At least Ford got that one right.

Down side. Only 5% bio diesel recommended (most around here is 20%) Particulate change interval is 120K - wonder what that will costs.

I'll sit out the introduction, but will really look hard at this in a year or too.

The best thing since sliced bread has got to be the tail gate step though. These old bones are going to love that option. Not too keen on the new square mirrors though. Like the looks of the current ones better.

Bottom line folks take the time to download and go through this presentation. Then have some fun and go ask your dealer a few questions. Pop quiz time [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

teamroper60 · 12-05-2006, 10:44 AM

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There is online courses that will need completing before the classroom training. The online courses will be available December 15. Dealers have 1 year to get diesel techs trained on 6.4.

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I just got the same info from one of the local techs this morning... He has I think he said 18 days to get it done......