Is there any hope of a 6 speed auto from Ford?

[SLT223]

Just curios. The 6SP Ally in GM trucks is pretty nice piece of equipment. Does Ford have any plans for something like this?

[Need me a 7.3]

If it becomes the industry standard they will have no choice...ever see any new cars with a two speed auto? What about a 3 speed???

I'm no expert, but I would hazard a guess that there are already some prototype 6 speed auto's running around, not sure how much $$ Ford's looking to spend right now on R&D in their current financial shape tho...

[mudguppy]

it may not be too far off and it may not be that big of a change to the current transmission. the reason i say that is the allison got a 6th gear by using an additional valve to add another combo of the existing gears IIRC.

[Brian_C]

IIRC, the torqueshift has 6 gears in it already. I think it has two 2nd gears that are used at different times, depending on temp.

Brian

[budman451]

[ QUOTE ]
IIRC, the torqueshift has 6 gears in it already. I think it has two 2nd gears that are used at different times, depending on temp.


[/ QUOTE ]

Correct, and from what I have read, the Allison in GM Products is also designed the same way, alternates between two different gear ratios depending on temp, so only 5 are only used typically. I may be incorrect however, since I do not work on too many GM's.

Buddy

[Bruce1954]

[ QUOTE ]
IIRC, the torqueshift has 6 gears in it already. I think it has two 2nd gears that are used at different times, depending on temp.

Brian

[/ QUOTE ]

It's two forth gears it goes like this:

Remember It is just a three speed with an over drive

First Low, this is lower than the 4R100
Second, Is first with over drive this is the added gear if you will in the 5R
Third is same as second in the old 4R100
NOW COMES THE CHOICE GEAR
Fourth is Straight Drive TC and out put are at the same speed
In Very cold weather Fourth is not used but third over instead, I forget the ratio but it very close to straight through but still a bit of reduction.
Then overdrive

As I understand it there is no programed shift from third over to forth they are to close together It could be programed but there is not point.

Now if Ford were to want to revise it to a 6 speed they would have to lower first a bit more and second/third so it could shift as follows

Remember it is a three speed with overdrive. (they are not adding gears they are just rearanging them to use overdrive more.

6 speed

1st gear very low
1st gear over or second added gear
second gear in a three speed or third in a five or six speed
Second over or fourth in a six speed
Third gear/straight drive in a three speed or fourth in a five sp or Fifth in a 6 speed
Then at last over drive in a 4 5 or 6 speed

[justinthurn]

the biggest advantage with a 6 speed is achieving less rpm at highway speeds. gm did this by adding a second overdrive. the torqshift could be used as a 6 speed, but wouldnt really gain anything unless they reduce the overdrive ratio a bit more for highway cruising. every truck should come with a 75+ mph empty highway cruising gear.

[AllOutFirefighter13]

<font color="blue"> For those that don't understand how an auto tranny works, or to further explain for those that somewhat do, check out THIS site. Very informative.

The thing that puzzles me is why the engineers that calculated the different ratios could seperate 4th and 5th gears more to utilize all six gears. I feel there has to be a reason, but I can't determine what that is. I believe that if the 6.4L is a success for Ford, they may be willing to beef up the tranny a bit and get the full 6 gears out of it. Many people have said (not necessarily on this site) that higher efficiency can be achieved by keeping the engine in it's powerband over the range of acceleration, which another gear could help in this area. This was one of the major pushes for the CVT trannys (the one's with the suped-up rubberbands).

Later, </font>

[EKUgrad]

The reason that I have been told for the gear spacing has to deal with what the intended primary purpose for the vehicle is. For example, if a vehicle is a delivery truck that makes frequent stop / starts, the gears will be lower and more evenly spaced. If the truck is used primarily at highway speeds (like pickups), then the top two gears are closer in ratio. This is so that there is not as large a difference when one has to downgear for moderate hills, etc.

Just the way that it was explained to me, who knows if the engineer telling me this knew what he was talking about. Anyways, it sounded good.

[Wobblin-Goblin]

I don't know the particulars of what these transmissions look like on the inside (ie, how they work), but my experience with Ford transmissions is this:

1. My '03 4R100 4-spd auto has been flawless. The shifting is smooth, it doesn't hunt for the correct gear all the time (like my dad's D-max/Allison), and it holds the torque going up hills while towing very well.

2. Any Torqueshift auto I've driven (in other people's trucks) has impressed me with the performance.

[mudguppy]

i agree with you, Goblin. i personnally feel the TrqShft is the best auto tranny i've ever driven. the 6spd ally is basically the same 5spd that they added a second OD. so when you're haulin'/towin', it's the exact same transmission, anyway.

i wouldn't mind a second OD for hi-way traveling. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[EDAZS]

It would be nice to see 4th 1 to 1 and 5th a .90 (somewhere) then 6th a .70 or so. I do not need the tranny to always down shift to 1to1 (4th) when it can not stay in 5th and rev up so much when towing.

[HideOut]

The discussion about the cruise speed from justinurn and others. What makes the most efficient drive gear for cruising is running at TQ peak as a cruise gear. I think it is about 1800 RPM on this engine, which is what was stated above I think (the 1800 part). Not sure if the 6.4 peaks there too but it should be close. CVTs do this exactly, stay at TQ peak all the way thru acceleration to maximize efficiency. Now keep in mind, part throtle Tq peak is lower in the efficiency calculation. Tq peak on a V6 gasser might be 2800 for example but the CVT under light load would stay say 2100. Under light throtle that engine is most efficient about there so thats where is stays. Public press releases quote peak HP and Tq. Not 33% throttle ratings and such.

Hide

[fullservice]

The 6 speed Allisons that have been used for years in medium ,and heavy trucks and buses have two overdrive gears. Usually about .75 for the first over and about .65 for the second over. If the Torque Shift had a double over then just like on these larger vehicles you can run a lower geared rearend for pulling bigger loads and still keep your RPM's down and have a good highway speed. You could also have lower gears in the tranny and one O.D. with the taller rearend gears but that puts more strain on the driveshaft and the transfer case gears in a 4X4 than lower rear gears and double O.D.s.
You do not want to cruise at peak torque for a couple of reasons. First, it is usually not the most efficient part of the RPM range like some seem to think. And secondly if you are cruising at your peak torque then as soon as you hit a hill or head wind you engine will fall on it's face because for every RPM it looses the engine is getting weaker. If you are cruising about half way between your TQ peak and your HP peak you are apt to be in the sweet spot for efficiency and as you hit a hill or other extra load the torque of the engine increases as the RPM fall. This is what allows you to pull a hill with out having to downshift with every tiny hill. If you notice most every "truck" comes out of the factory that way. If you don't believe check CAT's or CUMMIN's web sites or brouchures for their recommended crusing speeds for their big truck engines. They even have a spec called torque rise which is stating how much the torque goes up as the RPM's fall. They usually have TQ peak about 1100 and HP peak about 1850, and the engine RPM is goverened also about 1850 to 1950. They say determine what your cruising speed will be then spec trans, rearend and tire size to cruise between 1400 and 1600 RPM for best fuel economy and pulling ability combo.

[lriggnoht]

The 6R140 is on the drawing board as we speak.