6.4L Power Stroke Engine and DrivetrainDiscussion of the 6.4L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 2008-Up Super Duty trucks. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 6.4L Power Stroke engine.
I just purchased a used 2008 F350 Diesel dually, and I hooked up my 5th wheel for the 1st time to see how it did.
I don't have the truck manual, so I want to make sure I am not doing something wrong before I take it to the dealer.
I pressed the TOW MODE button, and I did not notice anything light up on the dash to indicate I was in a new mode. I tried holding it down for a few seconds, and again, nothing. Am I doing something wrong? How do I know if I am in Tow Mode?
Also, can I tow a heavy trailer (15K pounds) down a grade by manually downshifting and going slow the same as if I was in TOW mode, or does tow mode do something that you cant manually do when going down slopes?
Finally, in terms of the build in brake controller, I don't have any clue where to set the sensitivity. Is there a base number to start at when towing a 15K pound, 38 foot 5th wheel? I had it at 7.5 and then I had it at 10.0 and I didn't really notice much of a difference between the two. I thought that at 10.0 I might lock up the trailer tires, but I didn't.
On my Dodge, I have a Prodigy which has sensitivity as well as 3 modes depending on the weight of the trailer.
For the tow command built in system on my F350, my tests were fairly simple... drove in my neighborhood, got up to about 30 MPH and hit the brakes relatively firmly. I noticed the brake controller lights maxed out.
What I dont want is to lock up the brakes at 60 MPH on the freeway if I have to do an emergency stop, or burn out the brakes going doing a 5 mile grade.
Any help on both of these issues would be greatly appreciated.
When you press in the tow/haul button on the end of the gear shift selector, a light should come on in the lower part of the speedometer. I believe that you can check to see if the bulb is working when you first turn on the key (light post test), I’m not sure about the tow/haul, and I’ll check next time? If the tow/haul mode is on and you are using the cruise control the truck engine and transmission will slow the truck down to set speed. Also without using the cruise control it will slow down when you let off on the throttle.
I think the transmission will down shift, by moving the gear shifter, but I wouldn’t do it when I was at a high speed. I would think that the PCM and TCM would over ride some things you do. Again just my opinion.
I pull a 12K trailer and my brake controller is set at 6.5, any higher then that, I will drag the trailer wheels.
Again, my opinion. The lights maxed out, means that you have applied the brakes firmly (Almost to the floor); the more you press the pedal the more voltage to the trailer brakes, which is relative to the pedal. This you can read, starting on page 246 of the owner’s manual.
If the light bar is green, it means that a successful connection to the trailer has been detected, if red, you have a problem.
As far as the brakes not working if the above is OK, I seem to remember that the Ford Integrated brake controller only work with electric brakes, other trailer brakes systems have a work around, but I can’t remember, but there is information on the towing and hauling thread on this forum or Trailerlife.com. Below is a paste from the manual.
NOTE:The Ford TBC has only been verified to be compatible with
trailers having electric-actuated drum brakes (one to four axles)
and not hydraulic surge or electric-over-hydraulic types. It is the
responsibility of the customer to ensure that the trailer brakes are
adjusted appropriately, functioning normally and all electric
connections are properly made.
Hope some of this helps.
__________________ -2008 F-350 CC 4X4 Lariat, SRW, 3.73.
Any color, as long as it's "Black".
Ordered 12/31 - Born 02/11 - Picked up 03/29. -1972 First Ford - 1956 Fairlane - Mint
Rolled it at 100+mph (Teenager, Duh, no one hurt)
Totaled Oct/73 (Over 35 Years ago and still remember that lesson). -First New Ford - 79 Bronco - Ordered Mar/79
150K Miles - I disassembled 2000 and I sent it to three different scrap yards. -1982 - My Sister married a GM Sales Manager (He Retired 2007, "Hello" Ford Super Duty, enough said, LOL). -2003 - ZRX1200 (Some say "Mid Life", LOL). -2008 - Jayco 313RKS 5th (The kids won't move out of the house).
When you press in the tow/haul button on the end of the gear shift selector, a light should come on in the lower part of the speedometer. I believe that you can check to see if the bulb is working when you first turn on the key (light post test), I’m not sure about the tow/haul, and I’ll check next time? If the tow/haul mode is on and you are using the cruise control the truck engine and transmission will slow the truck down to set speed. Also without using the cruise control it will slow down when you let off on the throttle.
I think the transmission will down shift, by moving the gear shifter, but I wouldn’t do it when I was at a high speed. I would think that the PCM and TCM would over ride some things you do. Again just my opinion.
I pull a 12K trailer and my brake controller is set at 6.5, any higher then that, I will drag the trailer wheels.
Again, my opinion. The lights maxed out, means that you have applied the brakes firmly (Almost to the floor); the more you press the pedal the more voltage to the trailer brakes, which is relative to the pedal. This you can read, starting on page 246 of the owner’s manual.
If the light bar is green, it means that a successful connection to the trailer has been detected, if red, you have a problem.
As far as the brakes not working if the above is OK, I seem to remember that the Ford Integrated brake controller only work with electric brakes, other trailer brakes systems have a work around, but I can’t remember, but there is information on the towing and hauling thread on this forum or Trailerlife.com. Below is a paste from the manual.
NOTE:The Ford TBC has only been verified to be compatible with
trailers having electric-actuated drum brakes (one to four axles)
and not hydraulic surge or electric-over-hydraulic types. It is the
responsibility of the customer to ensure that the trailer brakes are
adjusted appropriately, functioning normally and all electric
connections are properly made.
Hope some of this helps.
Adjust the gain on the controller to the point where you can feel the trailer tugging / slowing you down by using the manual slide without locking the trailer brakes up. Adjust accordingly with load. Simple!! Works like a charm. There should be a tow haul light button that illuminates, mine lights up and works wonders for towing, also is much easier on the transmission.
best way for me to set the controller is a long flat surface where you can up to about 25/30 mph, then using only the TBC attempt to stop the truck. Adjust gain as needed to stop both truck/trailer without locking up the trailer tires. That should get you started.
Fleet ford as stated above can get the owners manual.
At the Ford owners website you registered by your vin and then you can get the owners manual and track all your maintance by you and the dealer.
Great way to have it if you have a warranty issue and you are out of town and don't have your reciepts handy.
__________________
08F250 CC 6.4 PSD
Banks 6 gun/ram air
40' Stoneridge 5th wheel, coming in at 14K.
I think the transmission will down shift, by moving the gear shifter, but I wouldn’t do it when I was at a high speed. I would think that the PCM and TCM would over ride some things you do.
The transmission will downshift by moving the shift lever. It will not downshift if that downshift will overspeed the engine. The TCM will prevent the shift until the truck slows enough that it can make the shift without overspeeding.
__________________ Mark Former Automatic Transmission Engineer 1988-2007
Thanks Mark: I knew you would know and provide the information
__________________ -2008 F-350 CC 4X4 Lariat, SRW, 3.73.
Any color, as long as it's "Black".
Ordered 12/31 - Born 02/11 - Picked up 03/29. -1972 First Ford - 1956 Fairlane - Mint
Rolled it at 100+mph (Teenager, Duh, no one hurt)
Totaled Oct/73 (Over 35 Years ago and still remember that lesson). -First New Ford - 79 Bronco - Ordered Mar/79
150K Miles - I disassembled 2000 and I sent it to three different scrap yards. -1982 - My Sister married a GM Sales Manager (He Retired 2007, "Hello" Ford Super Duty, enough said, LOL). -2003 - ZRX1200 (Some say "Mid Life", LOL). -2008 - Jayco 313RKS 5th (The kids won't move out of the house).
Caliviper: We're running a slightly heavier fiver than you, but same length. We're running with the gain set at 5.0 and we have disc brakes on the fiver. Sounds like you're using the right procedure. I'd set the gain where you're comfortable, and then have fun.
Watch the tow haul when you making an aggressive stop. We're getting a pretty hard slam from second into first just before you stop when we're trying to stop quickly. Just be aware of it and don't let it freak you out should it happen. We reduced it significantly by changing our driving habits in stop and go traffic.
Enjoy the unit!!! David
__________________
2009 F450 Pickup Lariat Plus w/Nav, 4X4 Off-Road Pkg, Rhino bed liner, 50 gal Transfer Flow fuel tank, 24k Reese Signature Series 5th-wheel hitch.
2011 MS 36RSSB3
The post above has worked for me. I have a 38 foot fifth and using the boost lever alone let it get to the point it slows the trailer down, then use that gain setting. Exact same procedure my old prodigy used for setting its gain.
I tried that, and it slows the truck down, but the trailer brakes never lock up, even when set at their maximum setting of 10.0.
Quote:
Originally Posted by senix
best way for me to set the controller is a long flat surface where you can up to about 25/30 mph, then using only the TBC attempt to stop the truck. Adjust gain as needed to stop both truck/trailer without locking up the trailer tires. That should get you started.
Fleet ford as stated above can get the owners manual.
At the Ford owners website you registered by your vin and then you can get the owners manual and track all your maintance by you and the dealer.
Great way to have it if you have a warranty issue and you are out of town and don't have your reciepts handy.
I tried that, and it slows the truck down, but the trailer brakes never lock up, even when set at their maximum setting of 10.0.
Something wrong with your trailer brakes most likely, those binders should lock right up under max gain (USING the lever that is). Gain is measured proportional from the feedback from your brake master cylinder, so if you're doing this test not using the lever, you're going to adjust the gain incorrectly.
Something wrong with your trailer brakes most likely, those binders should lock right up under max gain (USING the lever that is). Gain is measured proportional from the feedback from your brake master cylinder, so if you're doing this test not using the lever, you're going to adjust the gain incorrectly.
It's a brand new trailer. Should I take it down to some local place and have them look at it? The dealership is about a 3 hour round trip for me, so I would prefer not to have to take it to them.
As an FYI, when I snap the two levers together, the bars all light up, so I know it's showing maximum brake pressure.
With my old prodigy, I set the settings just as described. Roll along at 20MPH, and keep turning up the gain until the trailer wheels locked when I hit the full brake lever, then I backed it off a bit. I would then turn it up a little when I was on the freeway, and turn it down a bit when in the city as a personal preference (the way it felt.)
That is why I came here to ask, because I thought I might be doing something wrong, and thought it was odd that I could have the gain turned to 10, hit full brakes with just the lever (no truck brakes) and not luck up the trailer brakes.
Could it be because the trailer brakes are cold or some other issue?
Caliviper: This is just my opinion and I don’t know what kind of brake system you have on your trailer. It’s my understanding that if you use the TBC manual slide control, it in the most part overrides any thing the truck or what the electronics in the TBC has to do with the signal (power) going to the trailer brakes. The more you slide the manual lever, the more output power to the trailer brakes. If I put my lever over to maximum there is a slight delay, but my brakes will lock up, if it didn’t, I’d first wonder if my trailer brakes were adjusted properly.
The problem with trouble shooting some (not all) brake controllers, is that you just can’t measure 12 volts coming out of the connector, because the controller’s electronics also controls (can limit) the current (amps) which actual controls the amount of power to the trailer electric brakes. You can have the full 12 volts, but not have the full current. I really don’t know because my brakes are working and never thought to learn more!
It is hard to trouble shoot over the internet! In your case, you have to verify that the problem is with the trailer brake system, TBC or both. I’m no expert and if you have just an electric brake system like my trailer, not a hybrid brake system. I would eliminate the trailer by pulling the break away cable switch because this would take the truck and TBC out of the picture, because the brake’s power would be applied by only using the battery in the trailer. If the brakes locked up, then I would connect 12 volts to the brake pin on the trailer connector to verify that for sure the trailer is out of the picture.
Just to add: A year ago I had a problem with my truck’s trailer connection and was giving me a trailer fault on the DIC without a trailer connected, it was a known problem up here in the north with road salt getting into the back of the connector, Ford changed the guts of my 7 pin connector and it is now sealed to prevent this from happening again. The trucks without the TBC wouldn’t give the fault warning, but it doesn’t mean that some of the power that is suppose to go to the trailer brake, is going not ground.
__________________ -2008 F-350 CC 4X4 Lariat, SRW, 3.73.
Any color, as long as it's "Black".
Ordered 12/31 - Born 02/11 - Picked up 03/29. -1972 First Ford - 1956 Fairlane - Mint
Rolled it at 100+mph (Teenager, Duh, no one hurt)
Totaled Oct/73 (Over 35 Years ago and still remember that lesson). -First New Ford - 79 Bronco - Ordered Mar/79
150K Miles - I disassembled 2000 and I sent it to three different scrap yards. -1982 - My Sister married a GM Sales Manager (He Retired 2007, "Hello" Ford Super Duty, enough said, LOL). -2003 - ZRX1200 (Some say "Mid Life", LOL). -2008 - Jayco 313RKS 5th (The kids won't move out of the house).
Good idea about the break away cable. Question: Once you pull that out and the rig locks up the brakes, is it as simple as replacing the break away cable pin to be back to normal, or is it an ordeal to go through? I have never messed with the break away cable before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPD56
Caliviper: This is just my opinion and I don’t know what kind of brake system you have on your trailer. It’s my understanding that if you use the TBC manual slide control, it in the most part overrides any thing the truck or what the electronics in the TBC has to do with the signal (power) going to the trailer brakes. The more you slide the manual lever, the more output power to the trailer brakes. If I put my lever over to maximum there is a slight delay, but my brakes will lock up, if it didn’t, I’d first wonder if my trailer brakes were adjusted properly.
The problem with trouble shooting some (not all) brake controllers, is that you just can’t measure 12 volts coming out of the connector, because the controller’s electronics also controls (can limit) the current (amps) which actual controls the amount of power to the trailer electric brakes. You can have the full 12 volts, but not have the full current. I really don’t know because my brakes are working and never thought to learn more!
It is hard to trouble shoot over the internet! In your case, you have to verify that the problem is with the trailer brake system, TBC or both. I’m no expert and if you have just an electric brake system like my trailer, not a hybrid brake system. I would eliminate the trailer by pulling the break away cable switch because this would take the truck and TBC out of the picture, because the brake’s power would be applied by only using the battery in the trailer. If the brakes locked up, then I would connect 12 volts to the brake pin on the trailer connector to verify that for sure the trailer is out of the picture.
Just to add: A year ago I had a problem with my truck’s trailer connection and was giving me a trailer fault on the DIC without a trailer connected, it was a known problem up here in the north with road salt getting into the back of the connector, Ford changed the guts of my 7 pin connector and it is now sealed to prevent this from happening again. The trucks without the TBC wouldn’t give the fault warning, but it doesn’t mean that some of the power that is suppose to go to the trailer brake, is going not ground.
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-2008 F-350 CC 4X4 Lariat, SRW, 3.73.
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