EGR cleaning on 03 6.0L - Diesel Forum

one13designs · 08-06-2007, 09:58 PM

I have read all the posts on how to do it and I am sure that I can handle that, I just want to make sure I dont have to run any tests that I am seeing after I put it back in for the truck to run right. any help would be greatly appreciated thanks

jpb620 · 08-06-2007, 10:26 PM

after you put the egr back in you will have to do a key on engine off on demand test for the pcm to learn egr closed position then vgt relearn

GrampyJim · 08-06-2007, 10:36 PM

The VGT map is stored in KAM (keep alive memory) and shouldn't change unless the batteries have been disconnected.

Ford tells us that we should perform the KOEO On Demand test after cleaning or replacing the EGR... however, many seem to have cleaned (and even replaced) the EGR valve with no apparent driveability concerns in spite of not running the recommended routine.

Unlike a DIYer, a dealer tech can't pull the roof off another cold one saying "oh, well...." - nobody stands around having a good chuckle over our mistakes or oversights so we must do it absolutely right the first time.

one13designs · 08-06-2007, 10:51 PM

so i guess i should just try and clean it and see what happens from there?

teamroper60 · 08-06-2007, 11:10 PM

Grampy,

I presume that test is done so the PCM sees the "closed position" of the EGR??

If that presumption is correct, perhaps some of the older programming doesn't necessarily "look" for this position other than what it knows from it's original state? If so, that might explain why some people have had no issues when replacing or cleaning their EGR....

Just a thought.......

GrampyJim · 08-07-2007, 04:19 AM

Rereading the TSB (06-19-06) a little more slowly I see that the reason for running the KOEO test is to avoid any false P0404s... I'd struggled a couple of times with the idea that 0% duty cycle should have a closed valve and vowed to check it closer someday....

So... cleaning the valve and reinstalling it without performing the On Demand test should not yield any new driveability concerns.... BUT (there's always one of those, isn't there?)... if a P0404 DTC returns afterwards, we can't be sure if it is because a concern with the valve remains or if it is "induced" unlessthe KOEO test is run...

To avoid confusion.... retrieving and clearing memory codes with a code reader or tuner is NOT the same as running the KOEO On Demand test.

BLEnt · 08-07-2007, 07:56 AM

Jim

Can you explain "how to" this KOEO test. Is this something one can do in my driveway? Is this special computer tool that reset codes?

Thanks

BL

teamroper60 · 08-07-2007, 01:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
To avoid confusion.... retrieving and clearing memory codes with a code reader or tuner is NOT the same as running the KOEO On Demand test.

[/ QUOTE ]

Grampy,

Good point!! One caveat to that is, the Auto Enginuity can run some KOEO tests. Not sure which ones, but a buddy of mine has that tool and we have run the ones they have with it on my truck.

BLEnterprises,

The KOEO tests are not something you can do without a tool designed to run them. To my knowledge, just running a KOEO test will not clear codes...

one13designs · 08-07-2007, 09:45 PM

Ok well I am getting the code P0401 so that more than likely is the egr valve being clogged right? I went and bought the o ring kit from ford got my carb cleaner to clean off all the carbon build up, took out the two bolts that hold the valve in and spun it a little bit to have access to the tabs tried to pull it up nothing, tried to loop some wire through the tabs and wiggle side to side nothing, tried to grab it with a rag and channel locks nothing, any pointers for this, I know im not trying really hard for fear of breaking something else, but also afraid that after i get it out and clean it and put it all back together that my truck is not going to run at all because of the KOEO test.

teamroper60 · 08-07-2007, 10:01 PM

Get yourself a pair of small prybars with the little "rolling" heads (the "hooked" end is rounded on the top), like are used for pulling nails. Put one under each side of the ears the bolts go through and push them apart. That thing will pop straight up and out.

DRJ48 · 08-07-2007, 10:03 PM

I have pulled and cleaned mine twice now, over the last 2 years, with no issues. My last reflash was at 05E15 emmissions recall in June 06.

You may have to get tough with it, to get it broke loose, if its been in there since new. Once it moves it should come right out. Try a broom stick or something prying up on the looped wire while you wiggle the valve. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

GrampyJim · 08-07-2007, 10:35 PM

Right... retrieving memory codes is just what it says... we are retrieving codes that are stored in memory. The concern MAY or MAY NOT be present at that time.

There are two basic self tests that can be (actually "should" be) run. The KOEO On Demand self test instructs the PCM to perform a preprogrammed self test. This actually checks sensor data and operates some actuators to see if an identifiable problem is present at the time the test is being run... These "hard" or "on demand codes" must be addressed before any memory codes.

Now, some sensors and actuators cannot be accurately tested without having the engine running... hence, the KOER on demand test... During this test, a similar routine to the KOEO test is run. During this test we can hear things change... the engine will speed up, slow down, get quiet, get noisy.. all this as the PCM instructs a change of some sort and watches for a correct reaction to the change.

Some of the codes retrieved as "memory" codes can become on demand or hard codes during this test (just to cloud the issue, some memory codes are "instructional" codes... simply indicating that something didn't look right but damned if the PCM knows what it was).

Again, on demand codes should be addressed before any memory codes.

The heart of the matter is that the scan tool will offer the option of running these self tests... without this option and without telling the scan tool "yes, I want to run this test"... the test will not be run and you will be stuck with memory codes....

"Why are memory codes so bad?"... Well, they aren't.... but they aren't great, either. It's like having the smell of a great pot of chili coming from the kitchen and getting a bowl of beans at the table. If we leave a concern for long enough, conditions can degrade to the point where the PCM loses control of other things.... these can set codes of their own. Fix the original concern, and you might never see these other codes again... Unplug a sensor with the key on "just to see what happens"... and there's another code or perhaps multiple codes.... Thus, the recommendation to clear memory codes (in the case of multiple codes) and see what comes back first.

Just like running the KOEO and KOER tests (we have to "tell" the PCM we want to do this), running the On Demand tests will not erase any codes... a confusing part.... we can run an on demand test once and have a <particular> on demand code.... We can rerun the same test moments later and, if the concern is intermittent, that code can disappear into thin air... making it look like the code has been cleared.

Other valuable information from the On Demand tests includes "freeze frame" data (the operating conditions present at the time the code was set) and "pending codes" (conditions that have made the PCM sit up and take notice but haven't yet fulfilled all of the requirements to be announced).

If it was all as simple as some appear to think, guys like Doc, Greg and all the other dealer techs that give freely of their time and knowledge would be sitting in the SallyAnn soup kitchen for lunch.

DanBrown · 09-04-2007, 01:54 PM

I just got back from a trip pulling a trailer. What the heck is wrong with my truck??? Can it be as simple as the EGR valve? My 2003 6.0 would make airbox flutter noise while the gas pedal was pressed, and everytime the airbox noise happened the truck would act as if I let up on the pedal (I didn't) and blow out black smoke. It seemed to do this after the truck was on the road for a few miles, kind of makes me think something had to get hot before the problem starts. Any help or suggestions?

nexgentech · 09-08-2007, 11:14 PM

Yep - EGR - Had exactly the same thing happening on towing. Cleaned it and problem gone!

scrapin · 09-11-2007, 10:23 AM

Where is the valve and how do you clean it, having the same issues!