3 V V10 vs 8.1 L - Diesel Forum

ramv · 05-18-2009, 05:33 PM

Currently I daily drive/tow with an 8.1 powered 4.10 equipped 2005 Chevy 2500. Its an Avalanche so it has the 4L85E (HD GM 4 spd).

Its on 265s and gets 13-14 mpg and tows pretty darn good (7000 lb Dodge on a 2500 lb trialer, sometimes two rigs on a 34' trailer, about 13k lb trailer weight).

It gets about 7-8 mpg towing and will run the speed limit most of the time, however the big passes (11 000') I end up in first running about 40 mph (plenty of power just against the redline, not enough power to hold 2nd). No cooling issues except the tranny gets to about 215 deg F.

Originally I was told that the 6.8 didn't have as much power, but I think that is the 2V at the time. Current specs rate it close to mine. I am running a Hypertech programmer on the 87 octane setting.

I would like to go to a manual tranny. Since GM dropped the big block and the manual transmission, there isn't much reason to look there. I could do a diesel Ford or Dodge diesel, but that appears to be at least $5k more and may not be more reliable. (DPF, EGR etc).

So my long winded question -- Will the Ford impress me? Anyone towing 10K over the mountains? Naturally I would spec 4.30s (with the stock tires that is the same as 4.10s with my smaller Chevy tires).

I would also consider getting a cab over camper down the road if I had a pickup, so figure cabover, F-350 SRW, and a 10k trailer, I would be pushing 20k and plenty of wind drag. Will the Ford at least maintain 40-45 mph? Right now the Chevy feels like it would pull a middle gear, but no resonable way to upgrade it, (ZF-6 swap requires a body lift, and a fair amount of work, figure 5k+).

The only thing I don't like about the Chevy is the auto (which is ok for an auto but not near as nice as a TF or Allison).

Or should I just keep the Chevy, and look at some mods to get more power and beef up the stock transmission. No cab over option, but I could do a tent trailer and put it and the Dodge on my big flat deck.

Obviously a diesel would work best but I sure my like gasser for being quiet, easy to maintain, and resonably effecient.

Pappy19 · 05-18-2009, 08:58 PM

You should really drive a Ford V-10 with the new 5 speed Torqueshift tranny; it is a hoss. Coming from 10 years of running a diesel, I can tell you that this new V-10 coupled with the Torqueshift tranny, you will be surprised. This V-10 is a high rev engine and thus keeps the rpm's up and does not drop speed easily. If you tow heavy, then get the 4.30 rear. I have the 4.10 and it has worked just fine for me. I tow a 16' inclosed trailer maxed out and have no problems towing across Idaho, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, and Montana. I also tow 4-4wheelers with little effort. Solo, I have embarrassed many new Chevy and Dodge diesels. I even had a run-in with a new 6.4 and ran a dead heat up to 80 and I was hauling an empty 4-wheeler trailer. The Ford V-10 has more engines installed in Class A and Class C RV's than any other single engine.......why, because it is reliable and will tow with the best of them.

ramv · 05-19-2009, 08:27 AM

I do like the torque flight (buddy has one in his 6.0 dually), but ever since I have sold my '93 Ranger i miss picking my own gears. Especially towing. Our work trucks up until '03 were all ZFs which was nice, you know where you stand.

I figure the 6.8 has an extra grand of rpm on my 8.1. so that would really help.

akrewat · 05-19-2009, 08:59 AM

You might have a problem finding a manual transmission along with the V10, even if you order it. The latest model-year information says they are not available for a bunch of different combinations.

However, I'd check out the TorqShift automatic, and with the Tow/Haul feature you'll be pretty happy, I'd think.

You're still going to have power drop-off because of elevation on the gasser, not sure how much that's going to hurt.

Pappy19 · 05-19-2009, 10:02 PM

Actually, with the newer V-10's and the Torqueshift tranny, there is very little drop-off of power as compared to a new diesel with all of their EPA crap. I have run up against new Chevy, Dodge and Ford STOCK diesels and have either embarrassed them or kept right up with them in high altitude situations. Even while hauling heavy; I have a 16 ft. covered trailer that I max out, this V-10 hauls it with no problems. It doesn'r even grunt. Again, I say even again, there are more V-10's in Class A and Class C RV's than any other engine. Reason is, the V-10 can take it, and is reliable, and does a decent job, that's why.

COBRAJET · 05-22-2009, 02:52 PM

The reason for the V10's in class A's and C's is it is cheaper than a diesel. Entry level RV's are the number one sellers due to price. A turbo diesel is going to lose very little power as the altitude increases. Normally aspirated engines like the V10 will lose way more. Weight for weight the V10 is not going to hang with a turbo diesel in the mountains. It simply can't do it. The V10 is no slouch, but it is not a turbo diesel.

Pappy19 · 05-23-2009, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by COBRAJET

The reason for the V10's in class A's and C's is it is cheaper than a diesel. Entry level RV's are the number one sellers due to price. A turbo diesel is going to lose very little power as the altitude increases. Normally aspirated engines like the V10 will lose way more. Weight for weight the V10 is not going to hang with a turbo diesel in the mountains. It simply can't do it. The V10 is no slouch, but it is not a turbo diesel.

Yes, this is the only time that a newer "stock" diesel (from any manufacturer) might be slightly better towing in the mountains as the turbo has kicked in and it doesn't have to downshift....it looses boost and has to build it back again. Whereas the V-10 is a high rev engine and the shifting of the Torqueshift tranny always keeps this engine at peak power while towing. Also, if a cheap engine was all that was necessary in Class A&C RV's the they could have used the 5.4 and geared it down. The V-10 has a great history for being tough and reliable and getting the job done, that's why you see more V-10's than 6.0 leakers and 6.4 cab lifters. Also, there's even a newer diesel for next year. The best diesel engine Ford/International ever made was the 7.3 PSD. Everything since the 7.3 has been down hill.

ramv · 06-22-2009, 11:32 AM

Well I can't say I had a lot of luck with the 7.3 ('02 Ex blew a turbo on vail pass one day empty, and lost a rod in Illinois empty too... lots of chunks of engine on the ground. All in less then 70k miles).

Still looking at these trucks, looks like ordering a nice FX4, with cloth interior allows a ZF-6. As long as I get the pwr trailer mirrors, IBC and back up camera, I don't need much more.

THe Chevy has all the toys and they are ok, but really I don't need power moon roofs, and adjustable pedals.

coal913 · 08-22-2009, 11:07 PM

the V10 and 6sp is a great combo but get the 4.10 b/c the od is lower on the standard vs the auto

desertwheeler · 08-28-2009, 12:06 PM

To get the brake controller unless it changed you have to get an auto.

StrokerSmoker7.3 · 08-29-2009, 10:35 AM

The V10 is an impressive motor for what it is. My dad has an 01 Excursion 4.30s and an auto trans. It is no slouch but fuel milage is 14 at best on the highway. It will pull a house down though. If it were me, I go with a diesel, but since you want to stay a gasser, go with the new V10. They're strong, reliable motors.

blizzardwarrior7 · 08-30-2009, 11:32 PM

Im still not sure I understand why so many people are impressed with the v-10s....Ive had 7.3s and 6.0s, without major problems from either of them....Suprisingly less problems with my 6.0, than my 7.3 (read, NONE)....The power from the 6.0, and the new 6.4 even mildly tuned, is worlds above the v-10, 0-60, and towing. As mentioned, there is a reason the v-10 is offered as the base engine in so many RVs, its proven, and its cheap, but its not the most powerful option at all. Now not knocking it at all, just saying dont even compare it to the diesels. Compared to the gas motors available, its among the best. Simple as that.

Pappy19 · 08-31-2009, 11:09 AM

No one is saying the V-10 is THE most powerful engine out there. However, I'll say it again, the test that Truck Trend did 2 years ago on the 2008 models had all of the maker's diesel and gas rigs towing a 28' bumper tow up the same hills, down the same drag strip, both solo and towing. The only difference was that the V-10 truck had a 4.10 rear, as did the Chevy and Dodge gassers, while all of the diesels had a 3.73 rear. The Ford V-10 was faster than all of the gas engines and equal to or superior to all of the diesel engines. In fact the only time the V-10 was out-done was the 6.4 Ford diesel test up a 11% grade. Yes, the V-10 is cheaper, not only by the initial $7,000 cost but in maintenance costs as well. If you tow heavy alot, then by all means get a diesel. If you tow a boat or RV trailer once in a while, then you can't beat the V-10. If you don't hop up your diesel, you will be passed up by the new V-10's, cause I've done it. In fact, you'll have to hop up your diesel to out do a new V-10.

blizzardwarrior7 · 09-01-2009, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pappy19

No one is saying the V-10 is THE most powerful engine out there. However, I'll say it again, the test that Truck Trend did 2 years ago on the 2008 models had all of the maker's diesel and gas rigs towing a 28' bumper tow up the same hills, down the same drag strip, both solo and towing. The only difference was that the V-10 truck had a 4.10 rear, as did the Chevy and Dodge gassers, while all of the diesels had a 3.73 rear. The Ford V-10 was faster than all of the gas engines and equal to or superior to all of the diesel engines. In fact the only time the V-10 was out-done was the 6.4 Ford diesel test up a 11% grade. Yes, the V-10 is cheaper, not only by the initial $7,000 cost but in maintenance costs as well. If you tow heavy alot, then by all means get a diesel. If you tow a boat or RV trailer once in a while, then you can't beat the V-10. If you don't hop up your diesel, you will be passed up by the new V-10's, cause I've done it. In fact, you'll have to hop up your diesel to out do a new V-10.

If you say so, I dont buy it.

ciscofreak · 09-01-2009, 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pappy19

No one is saying the V-10 is THE most powerful engine out there. However, I'll say it again, the test that Truck Trend did 2 years ago on the 2008 models had all of the maker's diesel and gas rigs towing a 28' bumper tow up the same hills, down the same drag strip, both solo and towing. The only difference was that the V-10 truck had a 4.10 rear, as did the Chevy and Dodge gassers, while all of the diesels had a 3.73 rear. The Ford V-10 was faster than all of the gas engines and equal to or superior to all of the diesel engines. In fact the only time the V-10 was out-done was the 6.4 Ford diesel test up a 11% grade. Yes, the V-10 is cheaper, not only by the initial $7,000 cost but in maintenance costs as well. If you tow heavy alot, then by all means get a diesel. If you tow a boat or RV trailer once in a while, then you can't beat the V-10. If you don't hop up your diesel, you will be passed up by the new V-10's, cause I've done it. In fact, you'll have to hop up your diesel to out do a new V-10.

I have owned BOTH of these trucks and you obviously don't have a clue of what you're talking about.

The V10 was a GREAT motor with absolutely terrible mileage towing or empty. Towing in the passes of Washington, there is no comparison stock for stock. Stop filling this guy full of your wishful banter. My V10 would be SCREAMING to maintain 35 up the pass where as my diesel would hum along at 50 without being mashed to the floor.
Now with my mods, I would bury you in a soot cloud with my trailer in tow...