V10 Gasser performance at GVWR

[gitane59]

I am considering replacing my 2001 V10 Crew Cab SWR SB with a 2010 Crew Cab dually V10 which will be used for hauling my 14K lbs RV. I have 4:30 gears in my current truck and performance is marginal in the east coast mountains. I travel alot but have not gone west yet. I want more than just marginal hill climbing power and while I don't want to go diesel I'm thinking I need to.

Is there anyone out there with a new V10 experienced in towing at or near the trucks maximum ratings and with mountain experience that could provide some thoughts.

Also only the 3.73 or 4:10 ratio is available in the dually according to my local dealer. The SRW can be ordered with the 4:30 but not the DRW. What gives????? I want max towing capacity!

Any thoughts to help me make up my mind before it;s too late ot order a 2010 would be greatly appreciated.

[Pappy19]

There is about 75hp difference between the 2001 and the new 2008-2010 V-10. Plus the new Torque Shift tranny is awsome compared to the older R4100 or the standard hand-shaker. I am real sure if you get or order a 2010 V-10 with a TS tranny, a 4.30 will blow your socks off in comparison to your old V-10. When you go up those WV hills, just put her in Tow/Haul and go. Smae thing on the down hill side, the tow/haul will down shift for you. Really an awsome setup. Believe me, when I started using this 2008 V-10 with a 4.10, I wasn't real sure it would cut the mustard here in Idaho, Montana, Utah and Colorado with just a 4.10 rear. It did real fine, so I know a 4.30 rear should be a killer tow rig. You won't believe the difference in power until you drive a new V-10.

[Charlie98]

That's true, what Pappy said. I had a '99 F250 V-10 5-speed for 10 years and traded it this January for a '09 V-10 with the T/S transmission and I have to say it's a totally different motor. To do it over again I would have gotten the 5-speed but the auto isn't bad, but the motor is awesome!

...but do yourself a favor. If you are hauling weight get all the suspension upgrades you can. The suspension on the '99 is way better than the new '09 because it had the rear overload spring and sway bar. The '09 rear feels and drives like a bag of mush with even 500lb in it.

If you don't want a diesel (I understand... I drove a big truck for almost 20 years... I'm TIRED of diesels!) the V-10 is the best motor available.

[jlesniak]

That TS tranny is the balls. It makes that motor better. I came from a 04 6.0l diesel to an 08 v-10 and I am totally impressed!!! Far more than I expected. I pull an 11500lb 5er and I only got a SRW f-250 with the 4.10. Haven't gone on any mountains but pulled I-95 from CT to Delaware and Goin to Fla in Dec. 65-70 mph and averaged 8.8 on the cpu and 8.2 mpg on paper. And I was worried......not any more.

[Pappy19]

It just gets better and better the longer you drive that new V-10 with the TS tranny. I really feel bad for those 6 leakers that have had a bad experience. You really need to get a V-10 while you still have a chance.

[zanegrey]

Hey Pappy, any ideas how the V-10 would do up here in the Colorado Rockies? I live at 9K feet and if you look at my past posts about my 2008 F-350, I've already blown a motor (20K miles) and continue to have continuous regen / DPF issues! I've always been a diesel fan but I've had it and really considering going back to a gasser! Just wondering how it'll do at altitude pulling hay and cattle? Heaviest load would be 200 small squares (13,000 lbs) on my gooseneck flat bed trailer.

If my lemon law dispute goes through, I'm going to really consider building a V-10 with a Bradford built flatbed like I have now. Is the 4.3 gears the way to go and wondering out load if I should stay with the 20" wheels, they have been great to haul with so far.
I'm assuming that I can't get a hand shaker anymore either....

You seem to be pretty up to speed on the V-10, So I'd appreciate any input that you might have, as well as the rest of you that have owned the V-10!

Thanks Fella's, cheers from The Colorado High Country!
Leo

[Pappy19]

I have the 4.10 gears and 18" wheels and I have no problem towing heavy across mountains. I'll grant you that Colorado probably has some of the highest altitude grades in the country, so I would go with the 4.30 if I was you. Here is some other interesting info:

This is the official comment thread for the V10 v. PSD article.




Can a V10 put more power to the ground than a PSD? Through the use of gearing could the superior revving capabilities of the V10, along with the torque multiplication of lower gears, overcome the low end grunt of a diesel? The common consensus among diesel owners is that the gas motor has no chance at towing as well as a diesel. However, I suspect this opinion is based in personal bias. As such I decided to try gathering some empirical data in an attempt to determine whether a V10 can be competitive with a PSD.

Well first we have to think about how the trucks are used and optioned. For this experiment I’m going to look at the truck I’m personally interested in, and the most popular sales wise, a SRW CC. I’m also going to assume the trucks have an auto tranny and 0% drivetrain loss. I know factoring in no drivetrain loss requires us to step out of the real world for a moment, but it’s consistent. Still, factoring in drivetrain loss would give the same outcome with different numbers because each combination should have roughly the same amount of parasitic loss. I’m also going to assume the truck is running at highway towing speeds (wanting to maintain between 65-70 mph). I am also going to assume that both trucks are unmodified. Since anything is possible with modding assuming the trucks are stock is the only way to be fair and consistent.

With the aforementioned conditions in mind we must first determine what speeds are possible in each gear. The 6.4 is pretty much out of breath at 3200 RPM, but 3000 RPM is the practical limit. The V10 makes its peak power at 4750RPM but pulls strong all the way to 5200RPM. The following speed determinations are made with 275/65R20 (stock size with 20 inch wheels) tires. These are the speeds that would be run in each gear, with the given rear axle ratio, and the given RPM:

5R110W - 3.55 gears at 3000RPM
1st (3.11) 27mph
2nd (2.22) 38mph
3rd (1.55) 55mph
4th (1.00) 85mph
5th (0.71) 120mph

5R110W - 3.73 gears at 3000RPM
1st (3.11) 26mph
2nd (2.22) 36mph
3rd (1.55) 52mph
4th (1.00) 81mph
5th (0.71) 114mph

5R110W – 4.10 gears at 4750RPM
1st (3.11) 37mph
2nd (2.22) 52mph
3rd (1.55) 75mph
4th (1.00) 117mph
5th (0.71) 175mph

5R110W – 4.30 gears at 4750RPM
1st (3.11) 36mph
2nd (2.22) 50mph
3rd (1.55) 72mph
4th (1.00) 111mph
5th (0.71) 152mph

ZF – 3.73 gears at 3000RPM
Low (5.79) 14mph
1st (3.30) 24mph
2nd (2.10) 38mph
3rd (1.30) 62mph
4th (1.00) 81mph
5th (0.72) 113mph

ZF - 4.30 gears at 4750RPM
Low (5.79) 19mph
1st (3.30) 33mph
2nd (2.10) 53mph
3rd (1.30) 86mph
4th (1.00) 111mph
5th (0.72) 155mph

4R100 - 3.73:1 gears at 3000RPM
1st (2.71) 30mph
2nd (1.53) 53mph
3rd (1.00) 81mph
4th (0.71) 114mph


2008 V10 (362 hp – 457 ft/lbs): produces about 80% of its peak torque (peak 457 ft/lbs, 80% of which is 366 ft/lbs) between 1000 and 4750RPM.

2008 6.4 (350 hp – 650 ft/lbs): produces about 80% of its peak torque (peak 650 ft/lbs, 80% of which is 520 ft/lbs) between 1300 and 3000RPM.

2004 6.0 (325 hp – 560 ft/lbs): produces about 80% of its peak torque (peak 560 ft/lbs, 80% of which is 452 ft/lbs) between 1300 and 3000RPM.

2002 7.3 (250 hp – 500 ft/lbs): produces about 80% of its peak torque (peak 500 ft/lbs, 80% of which is 400 ft/lbs) between 1200 and 3000RPM.

The following maximum torque output was calculated by multiplying the torque by the rear axle ratio and the transmission gear ratio:

2008 V10 w/4.10 (366 ft/lbs) in overdrive = 1065 ft/lbs
2008 V10 w/4.10 (366 ft/lbs) in 4th gear = 1500 ft/lbs
2008 V10 w/4.10 (366 ft/lbs) in 3rd gear = 2326 ft/lbs
2008 V10 w/4.30 (366 ft/lbs) in overdrive = 1117 ft/lbs
2008 V10 w/4.30 (366 ft/lbs) in 4th gear = 1573 ft/lbs
2008 V10 w/4.30 (366 ft/lbs) in 3rd gear = 2439 ft/lbs

2008 6.4 w/3.55 (520 ft/lbs) in overdrive = 1311 ft/lbs
2008 6.4 w/3.55 (520 ft/lbs) in 4th = 1846 ft/lbs
2008 6.4 w/3.73 (520 ft/lbs) in overdrive = 1377 ft/lbs
2008 6.4 w/3.73 (520 ft/lbs) in 4th = 1940 ft/lbs

2004 6.0 w/3.73 (452 ft/lbs) in overdrive = 1180 ft/lbs
2004 6.0 w/3.73 (452 ft/lbs) in 4th gear = 1686 ft/lbs

2002 7.3 w/3.73 (400 ft/lbs) in overdrive = 1044 ft/lbs
2002 7.3 w/3.73 (400 ft/lbs) in 4th gear = 1492 ft/lbs


If we look at the maximum practical numbers (lowest gears possible to maintain highway speeds along with the lowest rear gears) the V10 puts down 20% more power to the ground than the 6.4, 31% more than the 6.0, and 39% more than the 7.3. Based on these numbers it appears that the V10 has the ability to put down significantly more power than the diesels if its greatest advantage, the ability to rev much higher, is exploited.

Does this mean that the V10 will “out pull” the diesels? On paper it would appear that it can tow just as well, if not better. But these are just calculations. Real world testing would be the only true way of determining such a feat. Therefore, a real world test may have to be the next step we have to take in gathering more information for this debate.

[zanegrey]

Awesome Pappy!
Great information and thanks for the quick reply.
Hopefully I'll have the option in the very near future to get the V-10 then?
We'll just have to see how the Colorado Lemon Law with my 2008 6.4 works out...
Wish me luck~
Leo

[ordually]

Originally Posted by zanegrey

Hey Pappy, any ideas how the V-10 would do up here in the Colorado Rockies? I live at 9K feet and if you look at my past posts about my 2008 F-350, I've already blown a motor (20K miles) and continue to have continuous regen / DPF issues! I've always been a diesel fan but I've had it and really considering going back to a gasser! Just wondering how it'll do at altitude pulling hay and cattle? Heaviest load would be 200 small squares (13,000 lbs) on my gooseneck flat bed trailer.

Hey Leo,

I live up on the Front Range in Castle Rock and I know the Summit County area pretty decent. I haven't had my 2005 V10 4.10 up there, but I can offer some towing experiences down here. I've towed my Sundowner 4 horse gooseneck trailer (5K empty) and a 16ft hydraulic dump trailer (5.5K empty) with various loads between 10K and 12K around Colorado and between here and Portland, Oregon. I can say that the V10 does feel the altitude some, but with the loads I've pulled I haven't had any complaints. Here's a few data points.

10K trailer, Pendleton, Oregon, EastBound up Cabbage Hill. 5-6% grade for 5-6 miles. Starting elevation: ~ 1000ft. I put the TS in 3rd and let 'er rip...climbed easy...plenty of pedal left. Some of the curves on that climb are sharp, slow down to 50, then just a little sqeeze of the pedal (not wide open) and you're back up at 60-65. Same load, I-80 in Wyoming, east of Laramie, climbing Telegraph Hill. 5-6% for about 5 miles. Starting elevation is about 8,000ft. Climbed that hill in 3rd again, wide open at about 68MPH. No big curves on that one to slow down for. So I needed more pedal in Wyoming than I did in Oregon.

One more for ya: 12K trailer (dump trailer with the Kubota L3130 on the back, plus implements), climbing I25's Monument Hill between Colorado Springs and Castle Rock. About a 5% grade at 7500ft. Climbed that one wide open in 3rd at about 65-68MPH. Had to slow down for a truck on that climb to, down to the mid-upper 50s...V10 had plenty to accelerate from there.

So, nothing as high as what you're talking about running but maybe my experiences will help a bit.

Ord.

[zanegrey]

Howdy Ord!
Hey, thanks for the info. it's just what I'm looking for.
Guys like you, Pappy and the rest have really helped me make a decision to get the V-10 once I'm hopefully out of my 08' 6.4!
My sad story continues again just yesterday with my 6.4 now telling me that it's now running on "reduced engine power" then just up and died on Highway 9 North toward Kremmling!
Another scary experience, was lucky to get off to the shoulder w/o getting rear ended. Was left stranded until my ranching partner could tow me back to the ranch. Then had to call Ford road side asst. who has now helped me for the second time! They are GREAT for anyone that wants to know!

So my rig is once again in the shop! For how long, who knows!
Already talking to our dealership up here about finding or building a V-10 with T/S transmission and thinking about 4.30 gears? From what I've read, it sounds like the best combination for me up here at altitude!

Just hoping that the lemon Law suit goes well, I can't fault our dealership, they have tried everything, Ford just isn't helping them and quite honestly feels like were getting brushed aside!

So, time for the gasser! and actually looking forward to it!
If your ever up this way, look me up, I'll buy you a beer at Murphy's in Silverthorne!

Thanks for the post Ord, take good care friend!
Cheers from the high Country~
Leo
High Country Highlands home page for contact info.

[1997stroker]

What do you guys think the gas mileage would be if you went with 4.30 gears instead of the 4.10s I have been thinking about an f350 CC 4x4 v10 I dont really tow now but possibly will be in the future would i be happy with mileage with 4.30s empty compared to the 4.10s? I am assuming it is only gonna drop about 1-1.5 mpg?

[rskeans]

Originally Posted by 1997stroker

What do you guys think the gas mileage would be if you went with 4.30 gears instead of the 4.10s I have been thinking about an f350 CC 4x4 v10 I dont really tow now but possibly will be in the future would i be happy with mileage with 4.30s empty compared to the 4.10s? I am assuming it is only gonna drop about 1-1.5 mpg?

I doubt that it will drop that much. There is only roughly 5% difference in RPM's between the two. So maybe that could be 0.5-0.7mpg's. However, the engine will be working less with a slightly lower gear by 5%. Therefore less fuel. The bottom line is that I wouldn't worry about it. That extra 5% torque to the wheels could be nice to have.

[Pappy19]

Depends on where you live and if you tow altitude. If you are a flatlander, it doesn't matter on the towing, the 4.10 will do fine. If you are going to tow up mountains, then a 4.30 will help. Difference in mileage would be about 1 mpg more or less, IMHO. I have the 4.10 and have towed "heavy" (not a 40' 5th wheel, but a 30" bumper pull), and never had a problem maintaining speed limits up mountains and still making 8.5-9 mpg. If you are towing a monster 5th wheel then a 4.30 would be the way to go.

[1997stroker]

Thanks Pappy. I am still on the fence. I really like the new v10s but I have so much wrapped up into my 06 dodge that I dunno if I can justify the trade ya know.

[taken]

4:30's mean so little gas wise and can only help in the towing dept. They really are the best gear for the 10.