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Need Help. No Start After New Injectors, Low ICP

5K views 29 replies 4 participants last post by  roozterdvx 
#1 · (Edited)
Got my new injectors this past week and installed them yesterday.

Parts came in on Tues.

Full Force single shot 180/0
TS 6 position chip
Riff Raff FPX
Strictly Diesel Dieselsite HPX
Riff Raff Banjo Bolts


Installed the HPX on Wed. and fired up/checked for leaks. Ran fine.
Installed the FPX on Thurs. and fired up/checked for leaks. Ran fine.

Installed the injectors and chip yesterday and she cranks but no start.
Killed the batteries. Went and picked up 2 new ones.
Cranks and no start.

Hooked up ForScan.
Buzz test the injectors and they all fire and sound good.
ICP is only getting to about 200psi.
Cracked open the HPX fittings and bled the oil system by jumping the solenoid, key off.
Good oil flow from the HPX. Tightened everything back up.


Unplugged the ICP sensor. ForScan shows over 2100psi ICP while cranking.
Checked oil level. Good
Checked oil level in HPOP res. Good.
Checked fuel bowl. Clean fuel, no oil mixing.


No fuel pressure gauge yet, Ordered.


At a loss here.
Thinking of removing the chip and trying to start...


I really hope I don't have to open her back up and pull injectors...
 
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#2 ·
Pulled the chip...

No start.
ICP at 195psi

Pulled the ICP connector.
ICP shows 2100+psi
 
#3 ·
It can take a LOT of cranking to get all the air out of the system. As you know, until you get above 500 psi, the computer won't fire the injectors. The trick Kevin came up with, and most of us use, is to crank the engine with the glow plugs still out until you hear the HPOP load up. That saves the batteries. After switching to that method, I've never had one not fire right up right away when I button everything back up.

If you suspect you've done something to prevent oil pressure from building, lay a straight edge across the injector solenoids. If you have one that didn't seat, you'll have to pull just that one. If they all seem to be at the same height, you're going to have to keep cranking until that pressure builds to 500+ psi.

Don't forget to double check all the connectors. The only one I couldn't get to fire up was the one I had left the main harness connector disconnected.
 
#4 ·
Put the chip back in.
Just checked the main connector on driver side valve cover.

Cranked and no change.

Going to pull the valve covers... ugh.
 
#5 ·
How much total cranking time have you done? The "standard" is up to 20 cranking cycles of 30 seconds each with a several minute cool down between each cycle. I'd be tempted to disable the glow plugs and give it a very light shot of ether before pulling it apart again. It could be your starter isn't up to the task of priming the system. Do NOT use ether with the glow plug system intact.
 
#6 ·
Just pulled the valve covers.
Straight edge across the injector solenoids on both side is good. No noticeable gaps.

Disconnected and pulled the glow plugs out.
Cranked for about 20 seconds and letting the starter cool down.

Going to give it a few more cycles like this.

How can I tell if the HPOP is loaded up?
Or is there an approximate number of cycles and just button her back up?
 
#7 · (Edited)
Got her all buttoned back up.
Still cranking...:crying:

ICP still says 195psi


When the ICP sensor is disconnected and ForScan is showing 2100+ psi for ICP pressure, shouldn't it try to fire the injectors?
 
#8 ·
It should give the electrical signal to fire the injectors, but if there is really only 195 psi, there won't be enough pressure to inject the fuel. While cranking with the glow plugs out, you will here the tone of the starter change as the load of the HPOP is added once it pushes the air out and is actually building pressure. Check your IPR connector - might have knocked it loose.
 
#9 · (Edited)
I did check the IPR connector and the rubber seal isn't in the best of shape but it's plugged in good.

Picking up another IPR tomorrow from a buddy after work. Believed to be good.

I'm going to swap out the solenoids first and see if ICP pressure comes up.
Then I'll try swapping the valve and check pressure again.
 
#10 ·
Swapped out the IPR.
Still only 200psi ICP pressure on ForScan.
 
#11 ·
Called in to Full Force.
Waiting for a call back...
 
#12 ·
Full Force called me back.
They say next logical step is to check the injectors for oil leaks or unrestricted flow though.

Going to pull the valve covers off again after work today...
Disconnect the injectors and crank her over to look for oil out of the injectors.

If I understand right...
If a top o-ring is damaged, oil should come out under the hold down clamp.
If the middle o-ring is damaged, oil would mix with the fuel and return to the bowl. (Bowl was checked previously and clean. No oil just clean green fuel)
If an injector poppet valve is stuck, oil should flow out of the deflector spout.
 
#13 ·
Well - look at it this way - you're going to be the site expert on pulling valve covers...
 
#14 · (Edited)
No kidding...lol :laugh2:


I got home from work and had everything stripped down including glow plugs out in just under 1 hour.


My buddy came over to help with cranking so I could look for leaks and while waiting for him I cleaned around the injectors and noticed something different about 1 injector.
The oil discharge hole that should line up with the deflector spout, doesn't...:surprise:
Basically, if you hold an injector upright with the electrical connector facing you, the oil hole should be to the right of center. This 1 has the hole to the left of center.


Now I'm thinking, this is it! I got a FUBAR injector!
Called Full Force and sent them a picture. They said their best guess is that that poppet plate was drilled wrong during manufacturing. It is impossible to assemble that plate upside down onto the injector body as the 4 bolt holes are counter bored to recess the bolts.
I pulled a coil off 1 of my old injectors and confirmed as I didn't want to believe it.:frown2:


Well, cranked her over looking for oil leakage or oil dumping from a deflector spout. Found none.
Cranked for 20-30 second intervals with cool down periods for the starter and it was starting to smell a little. Put a fan underneath it to help keep it cool but it looks like I'll be replacing that soon. :crying:


Going to call Full Force back again today to discuss "our" next step.
Also trying to find a hydraulic shop so I can piece together some fitting to deadhead test the HPOP.
 
#15 ·
Pic of injector with deflector spout
 

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#16 · (Edited)
Talked to Full Force again today about the "funky" injector.
They assured me that it makes no operational difference other than discharging the oil onto the head and it will return to the crankcase via the drain hole at the back of the head. I told him I'd feel better with a replacement injector and they agreed to send out another after I get this figured out and the truck running.

I picked up fittings and a gauge to deadhead test the pump.
Got home from work and tested...






and confirmed that the pump is only putting out 200psi on the gauge. :crying:


It was too late to call Full Force back to give them the results so I'll call them when they open tomorrow.


Started the pump removal process.
Removed the fuel bowl, drained the HPOP reservoir with a hand vacuum pump, (figured the res would drain when I pull the pump).
Drained the radiator removed the drive gear bolt cover.


Ran out of daylight and I'm not doing this with a worklight and risk buggering something else, (not willing to temp fate at this point.)


Now to figure out what or who to get an HPOP from...
My budget is pretty well blown at this point and I need to find something that I don't have to sell a kidney for.
 
#17 ·
...and the wife is ready to kill me because the truck was running, (not well but running), before I "fixed" it.
 
#18 ·
When you did the deadhead test, did you apply a constant 12V to the IPR? That fully closes the IPR (assuming it's working correctly) to control the HPOP to it's highest output pressure. The issue could be your IPR rather than the HPOP. The testing procedure in the service manual says to install a known good IPR to differentiate between a bad IPR and a bad HPOP.
 
#19 · (Edited)
No I didn't apply 12v to the IPR.
Didn't realize I needed to...
IPR has been swapped previously with "believed" good IPR.

During cranking, (with both IPR valves), duty cycle skyrockets to 90+% and ICP pressure has been between 195-204 psi depending on temp.


Going to read up some more on the deadhead test before I finish yanking out the HPOP...
 
#20 ·
Remember, IPR duty cycle is what the computer thinks it is telling the IPR to do, not what the IPR is doing. If you had the IPR unplugged, it would still ready 90% and you'd have no pressure. That's why I made you check it above. Could even be a chaffed wire in its harness causing this.
 
#21 ·
The search is on for a connector/pigtail for the IPR.
With the all the harnesses disconnected, fuel lines all disconnected and fuel bowl out, I want to be able to apply 12v without cranking with the key.
I suppose I could hook up the harness then climb under the truck to disconnect the frame rail mounted pump but with my luck it's going to STB if I touch the SOB.

Checking every parts store between work and home for an IPR/injector connector.

I'll post my findings...


BTW, anybody know of another connector that would match up? The only 1 I've found in stock is at NAPA but looks different.
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/CRB218462
 
#22 · (Edited)
If you have a UCVH laying around, the IPR connector is the same as the injector connectors.
Also available as a pigtail kit from Ford or International.
IPR Repair Pigtail
Ford 6E7Z-12A690-DA
Intl 2501107C1 repair connector with 12” pigtails for IPR

[on edit] that Ford PN comes up with a picture that looks identical to your NAPA link when I checked at
parts.autonationfordwhitebearlake.com :scratchhead: It should be the one with the metal wire bail that holds it in place.
 
#23 ·
Well, the saga continues...

I picked up that IPR pigtail at Napa on my way home. It doesn't have the metal clip but it is the right size, shape, and fits the IPR. It looks like it attaches to where the metal clip does. I didn't push it all the way on so as not to fight to get it back off but did make connection.

I took my original IPR apart and cleaned it then tested it with the pigtail on the battery.
I then installed the original IPR into the HPOP.

I extended the wires on it to reach the battery, hooked up my "deadhead" rig and jumped the starter solenoid to crank it over.
200psi on the gauge.

Cranked her again and hit the IPR jumper to the battery as well.
Deadhead pressure jumped to 3500psi and the starter loaded down almost immediately! :surprise: :grin2:

So, the good news is the HPOP isn't dead.

I started putting everything back together.
Got the fuel bowl back in and all the lines connected.
Dropped in the glow-plugs and connected everything under the valve covers as well as plugged in the gasket/harnesses.

Connected the batteries and turned the key on to pressurize the fuel side and check for leaks.

While checking around the fuel bowl and lines, I can hear fuel pouring on the driveway!



Forgot to close the fuel bowl drain...:surprise:

Cleaned up the mess and turned the key again.
No leaks. :grin2:


Installed the valve covers, connected the main harness, installed the CAC tubes, turbo inlet tube and air filter.
Refilled the coolant that I drained to remove the heater hose and cranked her over.

No start.

Grabbed the laptop to watch ICP pressure and it hits 200psi.:frown2:

At least I've narrowed it down to something electrical from the IPR connector back.

Too dark to keep working so tomorrow's mission is to replace the original connector with the one I picked up to make the jumper and go from there.
 
#24 · (Edited)
She LIVES! :grin2:

Got home from work and went right to work.

Disconnected the batteries, removed the driver side CAC tube and unplugged the 42pin and IPR connectors.

Tested for continuity from red wire pin on the IPR to #24 pin on the 42 and got continuity.
Moved the probe to the yellow/red on the IPR and got continuity...? That shouldn't happen. It should go to pin #25.

Moved the probe to the #25 pin on the 42 and got continuity.
Moved the probe back to the red wire pin on the IPR connector and still got continuity...

Tells me I got a short in the harness between the IPR connector and the 42 pin connector.

Disconnected the remaining sensor connectors on that part of the harness so I could pull it out from behind the fuel bowl and took the tape and plastic loom off. Found the insulation on the IPR wires crumbling and the wires touching each other.

First thing that crossed my mind is I got it!
Then I started worrying that I might have fried the PCM with a dead short, (or shunt), across the IPR circuit.

Only one way for me to tell...
...cut off and replace the pigtail.
Put everything back together, connected the batteries and turn the key.

She cranked for about 2 seconds, she lit off and settled into idle.

I let her warm up and checked over everything for leaks.

After a full warm up, EOT up to 150, I took her for a ride around the neighborhood.

She's so much more peppy with the new 180's... :grin2:
 

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#25 ·
It’s going to take 60 miles of aggressive driving to get all the air out of the oil rails. Until then, it might not start as fast as you’re expecting and won’t run as well as it should.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
#26 ·
Good work. :thumbsup:
Glad you got it figured out.
I'm surprised it didn't blow the fuse for the IPR circuit (same as the PCM power and fuel heater fuse). Sounds like your PCM is fine.
 
#27 ·
Congratulations on getting it running. Been following this thread from the start. Nice job detailing what you did to fix the problem, this will surely help someone in the future.
 
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