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-   -   Looming large "carbon tax" fuel tax increase (https://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f102/looming-large-carbon-tax-fuel-tax-increase-199932/)

Rick M 05-16-2008 07:47 AM

Looming large "carbon tax" fuel tax increase
 
Have any of you guys seen or heard of this? Talk about putting the hurt on this economy.

Senators Warn Bill Could Spike Gas $1.50 to $5 a Gallon

George C 05-16-2008 08:08 AM

On subject, I am doubting the timing is right for any elected representitave to support a bill like this. It's electoral suicide to vote yes.

PRDATR 05-16-2008 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick M (Post 1571258)
Have any of you guys seen or heard of this? Talk about putting the hurt on this economy.

Senators Warn Bill Could Spike Gas $1.50 to $5 a Gallon


Hey Rick, Thanks for posting that. Pretty scary stuff.

roofeditor 05-16-2008 10:39 AM

Agree agree!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by George C (Post 1571269)
On subject, I am doubting the timing is right for any elected Representative to support a bill like this. It's electoral suicide to vote yes.

We are generally suffering as a country because of the energy prices, adding to this would not be helpful to most business.

Some of that are generally retired can drive less or not at all other than going to the store once a week but many of us function our business by cars and trucks and MUST drive.

That said: Taxing may hurt people but taxing may drive down usage which will drive the crude price down which will drive the dollar up. As the dollar comes up the economy functions better, also less money going out of the country has a 4-1 effect.

macmaniac1 05-16-2008 01:26 PM

I was sent an email from a friend basically showing me that this might happen. He led me to a webstie called grassfire.org. In it it had a x-vp of our country trying to explain how to become a billionare. His main plan was depending on this tax to be passed. In my little opinion this will only hurt the working person that this tax will affect directly or indirectly while making someone like him rich beyond belief. The true solution is to make "green energy" more readily available and affordable for the average person. By the way this energy has been around a whole lot longer than what many oil exec's and their political puppets from both sides of the fence want us to believe. That is my $.02.

Hook'em Horns! 05-16-2008 02:12 PM

Denmark made it work
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by macmaniac1 (Post 1571393)
I was sent an email from a friend basically showing me that this might happen. He led me to a webstie called grassfire.org. In it it had a x-vp of our country trying to explain how to become a billionare. His main plan was depending on this tax to be passed. In my little opinion this will only hurt the working person that this tax will affect directly or indirectly while making someone like him rich beyond belief. The true solution is to make "green energy" more readily available and affordable for the average person. By the way this energy has been around a whole lot longer than what many oil exec's and their political puppets from both sides of the fence want us to believe. That is my $.02.

I agree.
From http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/25/opinion/25prasad.html

“The one country in which carbon taxes have led to a large decrease in emissions is Denmark, whose per capita carbon dioxide emissions were nearly 15 percent lower in 2005 than in 1990. And Denmark accomplished this while posting a remarkably strong economic record and without relying on nuclear power.”

“If reducing emissions is the goal, then a carbon tax is a tax you want to impose but never collect.”

“Tax the industrial emission of carbon and return the revenue to industry through subsidies for research and investment in alternative energy sources, cleaner-burning fuel, carbon-capture technologies and other environmental innovations.”

Higher gas taxes raises revenue but does little to curb pollution as Congress just turns the tax into a source of income for other non-related spending. (Pork) :thdown::nono: :thdown::nono:

checkthisout 05-16-2008 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roofeditor (Post 1571313)
We are generally suffering as a country because of the energy prices, adding to this would not be helpful to most business.

Some of that are generally retired can drive less or not at all other than going to the store once a week but many of us function our business by cars and trucks and MUST drive.

That said: Taxing may hurt people but taxing may drive down usage which will drive the crude price down which will drive the dollar up. As the dollar comes up the economy functions better, also less money going out of the country has a 4-1 effect.


I think A Carbon tax is better than "cap and trade" for reasons that you and I probably differ on.

I never considered that a carbon tax would have the effect of lowering crude prices.

That's definitely a plus. Maybe investors would move away from bubbling the price of oil and into alt energy markets if it had a solid commitment to investment from the fed? (carbon tax)

George C 05-17-2008 12:40 PM

Did you guys see the Saudi's snuff out their cigar on Bush's head yesterday?
So much for calling in some cards from that Country..
I think the gasoline pains are far from reaching the summit. Combine the world's new enonomic machines, along with their thirst for oil, trust me, we are in for a rude awakening..

The changes in this Country's appetite for energy will now turn on a dime.
Now, I would really like to see how many diesels the big 4 will sell in the coming years.. Current EPA standards will make personal diesels extinct in the next few, short years. currently, it's costing the 2008 owners almost .50 cents a mile to drive.

I think we all know just where some people can go with their political views. But, I don't see it with this crowd.

roofeditor 05-17-2008 05:33 PM

Oh don't go Bush on us!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by George C (Post 1571799)
Did you guys see the Saudi's snuff out their cigar on Bush's head yesterday?
So much for calling in some cards from that Country..
I think the gasoline pains are far from reaching the summit. Combine the world's new economic machines, along with their thirst for oil, trust me, we are in for a rude awakening..

The changes in this Country's appetite for energy will now turn on a dime.
Now, I would really like to see how many diesels the big 4 will sell in the coming years.. Current EPA standards will make personal diesels extinct in the next few, short years. currently, it's costing the 2008 owners almost .50 cents a mile to drive.

I think we all know just where some people can go with their political views. But, I don't see it with this crowd.

We have been living on borrowed time since the warning in the carter years and all leaders just sat there. Still sitting there in my opinion.

Agree on your statement that people driving a F-350 sort of for fun is about at an end. even if guys like you and I can do a $200 fill up with our coffee money, I do tend to feel a bit stupid about it.

On the Albany NY front we are spending $30,000 a month with the 84 lumber D-466 delivery trucks which has about killed all profit. We probably will end this BS by the end of the year.

As i mentioned several times in several threads.

We need NOW: like a WW-2 plan or a go to the moon plan.

1. Drilling where we have oil and too bad if they don't like it this is a war.
2. Building NEW refineries that can make gas and diesel in a big efficient way.
3. New clean coal power-plants. We have more coal than the Arabs have oil!!!!
4. Solar subsidies (ya OK send them to me)
5. Wind plants along the coast and in mountain areas. Remember a GE unit can do 3.7 meg and obviously 10 of them is 37 megawatts. and at only $1.00 a watt!!!
5. One EPA for the entire country, California and NY are not private countries!
6. One diesel standard.
7. One gas standard.
8. Bag this stupid corn ethanol program.
9. Higher CAFE standards and include trucks and SUVS.
10. Proper building standards.
11. Modern heating and cooling standards.
12. Trains are WAY more efficient than 18 wheelers.
13. Special special TAX incentives for any of this that is made here, with US employees rather than imported!!!!!!
14. A nuclear program like that of France they are making about 500 TWh which for you math majors is 10 to the 12 watt hours. Thats a big number.

And for those that will jump in and say nuclear power is the most expensive:

BS

France is the world's largest net exporter of electric power, exporting 18% of its total production (about 100 TWh) to Italy, the Netherlands, Britain, and Germany, and its electricity cost is among the lowest in Europe

Hey are going to let a bunch of frenchies out do us when we invented the darn thing?

Wind how about this:

A tenth of the world's electricity could be provided by wind energy within the space of two decades, according to a new analysis presented in Buenos Aires by the EWEA, Greenpeace and the Danish Forum for Energy and Development. The study shows that 844,000MW of installed wind capacity would be needed to produce 2,071 Terrawatt hours of electricity. This would represent 10% of world demand in the year 2017 - enough to power 500 million households. Crucially, the report says the target could be achieved at the same cost as fossil fuel options.

Hook'em Horns! 05-17-2008 07:35 PM

Are they (France) also the largest exporter of nuclear waste? And what lovely locale for the waste has this honor been bestowed upon?
:rofl:

roofeditor 05-18-2008 09:20 AM

There are methods for waste also
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hook'em Horns! (Post 1571921)
Are they (France) also the largest exporter of nuclear waste? And what lovely locale for the waste has this honor been bestowed upon?

Argonne’s spent-fuel recycling may reduce nuclear waste storage shortage

Modular Helium Reactor Technology: Making Nuclear Waste Transmutation Practical

The thread was cleaned up a bit by a moderator that had some common sense and for that I offer thanks. :thumbsup:

George C 05-18-2008 09:32 AM

Richard,
You know as well as I that there will never be any changes made in the oil business.
The riches are so overwhelming, that it would take an administration as honest as Jesus Christ to implement real changes.
Otherwise, the "stuffed envelope under the door" policy will still be the norm.
Want to know why there have been no new refineries built?
Want to become a dead man? Just try to muscle your way into that controlled network, and I'm not talking about the mob.

For me, I don't know about the coffee money thing, but this is one little luxury that I will always afford myself, and that's a comfortable truck for around the area, and to tow my trailer..
If we ever go anywhere, we always take my wife's MKx, which makes me feel at least a little less responsible for fuel waste.

roofeditor 05-18-2008 03:39 PM

Like the MKx?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by George C (Post 1572114)
Richard,
You know as well as I that there will never be any changes made in the oil business.
The riches are so overwhelming, that it would take an administration as honest as Jesus Christ to implement real changes.
Otherwise, the "stuffed envelope under the door" policy will still be the norm.
Want to know why there have been no new refineries built?
Want to become a dead man? Just try to muscle your way into that controlled network, and I'm not talking about the mob.

For me, I don't know about the coffee money thing, but this is one little luxury that I will always afford myself, and that's a comfortable truck for around the area, and to tow my trailer..
If we ever go anywhere, we always take my wife's MKx, which makes me feel at least a little less responsible for fuel waste.

I think you get my other drift, I know $200 a fill up isn't going to put a crimp on your yearly profit and loss! I'm just feeling a little stupid or decadent doing it! I'm driving the Honda a lot and I actually put over 1,000 miles on the bike last week at 40 mpg. AND I like the bike!

checkthisout 05-19-2008 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George C (Post 1572114)
Richard,
You know as well as I that there will never be any changes made in the oil business.
The riches are so overwhelming, that it would take an administration as honest as Jesus Christ to implement real changes.
Otherwise, the "stuffed envelope under the door" policy will still be the norm.
Want to know why there have been no new refineries built?
Want to become a dead man? Just try to muscle your way into that controlled network, and I'm not talking about the mob.

For me, I don't know about the coffee money thing, but this is one little luxury that I will always afford myself, and that's a comfortable truck for around the area, and to tow my trailer..
If we ever go anywhere, we always take my wife's MKx, which makes me feel at least a little less responsible for fuel waste.


So as long as YOU have money then everythings ok right?

roofeditor 05-19-2008 10:00 AM

It's sort of a private joke
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by checkthisout (Post 1572488)
So as long as YOU have money then everythings ok right?

There do need to be major changes in Detroit but more so in our mentality!


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