Typical Fuel Dilution Percentage? - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
6.7L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain Discussion of the 6.7L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 2011-Up Super Duty trucks. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 6.7L Power Stroke engine.

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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-12-2017, 01:17 PM Thread Starter
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Typical Fuel Dilution Percentage?

For those who UOA, what is your typical percentage? Mine usually runs between 3% and 4%, but I recently had above 5% and Horizon flagged it. The oil was fine viscosity wise and wear metals were low, but I was curious as to what others experience.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-06-2017, 07:43 AM Thread Starter
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**bump**

Anyone have any input? I will likely take it into the dealer next week because my last UOA had 4% fuel dilution and that makes 3 in a row.


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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-06-2017, 11:18 AM
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I stopped checking UOA years ago.
I will be interested to see if the dealer does anything.
Historically, they have not taken any action with 3rd party analysis.
They didn't on my 6.0L when I had high Pb readings. Then my turbo went out 4k miles later.

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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-29-2018, 04:19 PM
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Ever find anything out? Just had my oil analyzed by Oil Analyzers/Horizon for the first time, and fuel dilution is 3.7% (Blackstone said same exact oil had <0.5%). Wondering what is causing the dilution . . . . See end of my recent redline UOA post on bitog.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-29-2018, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by 2015_PSD View Post
For those who UOA, what is your typical percentage? Mine usually runs between 3% and 4%, but I recently had above 5% and Horizon flagged it. The oil was fine viscosity wise and wear metals were low, but I was curious as to what others experience.
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Ever find anything out? Just had my oil analyzed by Oil Analyzers/Horizon for the first time, and fuel dilution is 3.7% (Blackstone said same exact oil had <0.5%). Wondering what is causing the dilution . . . . See end of my recent redline UOA post on bitog.
Sounds like the next step is to get a 3rd independent UOA and find out which is more accurate—Blackstone or Horizon.


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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-30-2018, 04:42 AM Thread Starter
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Sounds like the next step is to get a 3rd independent UOA and find out which is more accurate—Blackstone or Horizon.
I think we both know the answer to that one. Blackstone estimates fuel dilution based upon flashpoint and that test is highly subjective because it is read by a human and if not read at the correct time, then the results are skewed versus Horizon who uses gas chromatography (WI-0086; ASTM D7593). In addition, Horizon is ISO certified and Blackstone is not (unless something has changed).


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- Ford Splashguard/Mudflaps
- Husky Rear Wheelwell Liners
- Bull Ring retractable tie downs
- Leer 700 Bed Cap
- Mag-Hytec Rear Axle Cover
- Mag-Hytec Front Axle Cover
- OEM Rear Sway Bar
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-30-2018, 04:53 AM Thread Starter
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Ever find anything out? Just had my oil analyzed by Oil Analyzers/Horizon for the first time, and fuel dilution is 3.7% (Blackstone said same exact oil had <0.5%). Wondering what is causing the dilution . . . . See end of my recent redline UOA post on bitog.
I had a failed mass air flow sensor that was contributing to some of the dilution, but even after it was replaced, my dilution is still around 4.0%. The primary contributor at times for me is short tripping which causes more regens--particularly in the winter time. With nearly 100% certainty, I can assure you that you have more fuel in your oil than a trace (as indicated by the Blackstone UOA on BITOG). This test methodology for fuel dilution, the inability for Blackstone to accurately measure soot in diesel oil, lack of ISO certifications, outdated ASTM test methodology, and when coupled with cost is what pushed me to Horizon for UOAs. This is how Blackstone tests for fuel dilution (taken from BITOG):

Flashpoint and water contamination are measured in a very accurate, but somewhat “low tech” method. Two ounces (60ml; the vast majority of your total sample) of oil are placed into a metal cup, and then slowly heated from underneath the cup. Barely above the cup is a small gas flame tip. A thermocouple is placed in the oil. As the oil heats up, it will eventually get to a temperature where is begins to evaporate, and that evaporation contains combustible gasses. When that combustible gas ignites, it indicates the “flash point” (the point at which a “flash” of flame can be induced). Fuel contamination such as gasoline and diesel will lower the flash point. That FP temperature is noted, and manually entered into the computer system. Water in the oil will “boil” well before the oil will “flash”, and so the technician can hear the sizzle and pop of water escaping the oil. If you’ve even splashed some water into the frying pan at the stove, you know exactly what it sounds like.

Does not sound "very accurate" in the slightest given that a human has to be watching at the precise time to see the result (flash) versus a gas chromatograph test which is highly standardized, infinitely repeatable, and can be calibrated against a standard.


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Currently running Chevron Delo 400 LE 15W-40 (CJ-4) oil and CQ Blue 84151 (Clarcor) oil filter

All Stock except for a few accessories:
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- Ford Splashguard/Mudflaps
- Husky Rear Wheelwell Liners
- Bull Ring retractable tie downs
- Leer 700 Bed Cap
- Mag-Hytec Rear Axle Cover
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- OEM Rear Sway Bar
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-30-2018, 06:31 AM
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Thanks for the information. Yeah, I'm pretty set on Blackstone having no clue on fuel dilution - wish they'd change their technique to GC. Seems like the only way to guestimate fuel dilution with Blackstone is to use a VOA for original viscosity, and see how much viscosity dropped on the report, and then hope it wasn't shearing - not comforting or accurate.

Looks like my fuel dilution in that 3-4% range has been there for a long time. 2014 6.7L, with 126K. I do not do many short trips, so not sure what's causing it, or if it is "normal" in these powerstrokes. May try replacing that part that you had go PSD, to see if that helps.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-30-2018, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcticDriver View Post
Sounds like the next step is to get a 3rd independent UOA and find out which is more accurate—Blackstone or Horizon.
I think we both know the answer to that one. Blackstone estimates fuel dilution based upon flashpoint and that test is highly subjective because it is read by a human and if not read at the correct time, then the results are skewed versus Horizon who uses gas chromatography (WI-0086; ASTM D7593). In addition, Horizon is ISO certified and Blackstone is not (unless something has changed).
Dang !

I did not know the answer to that one.

But I do now. Thanks.


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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-30-2018, 09:07 AM
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Attached are two pix showing oil analyses from Oil Analyzers/Horizon vs. Blackstone, for the same oil from my 2014 6.7. Note the different fuel dilution numbers - scary.

Note also that for the Blackstone report, the left most column is Amsoil SS 5w40, the far two right columns are Rotella T6 5w40, and the third column in from the right is Red Line 15w40. Note the lower wear values with the Red Line and Amsoil (compared to T6), although it's a very small sample size.
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-05-2018, 05:37 PM
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Fuel Dilution or oil change gone bad??

Hi!

I'm not sure I have the correct forum, but I'm gonna give a quick rundown. Took my brand new Infiniti 2017 in for it's first oil change at 6,500. Now my engine is destroyed. However, coincidently my entire fuel system is destroyed as well (fuel injectors and fuel pump needed to be replaced, and fuel lines and fuel tank completely deteriorated/contaminated). Infiniti states fuel issues are a defect they believe and have nothing to do with the engine. They say engine is due to lack of oil or oil pressure caused by the oil change (which was NOT done at Infiniti), which we believe as well. However, oil change facility states they did everything by the book and now that they know about our fuel issues they are saying we have fuel dilution and that has caused the engine to go bad, not the oil change. We are battling back and forth with Infiniti and Oil place and no one wants to take blame for the engine. It's not diesel obviously. Both Infiniti and Oil place sent oil to be tested. Anyone have any input on this?

Thanks!
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