Filtering WMO with bag filters only - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-13-2011, 12:38 PM Thread Starter
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Filtering WMO with bag filters only

I am on a VERY limited budget so I am wondering if it's possible to use only bag filters to filter my pre-settled W85 mix. My WMO has insignificant amounts of liquid contamination (water, AntiFreeze)

The ultimate chepo plan is to suck off top of a settled WMO barrel then blend to W85 (or maybe 50/50-60/40 WMO/D2), settle out, use a jean leg filter then a 10 micron poly felt bag, settle more, then a 1 or 2 micron polyfelt bag before going into tank.
Does this sound like it could work without major problems?

I plan on a multiple spin on filter up flow setup when I have the money which I think i can put together for around $100 since I already have some of the components.

1993 F-250 Ext cab 7.3 IDI NA, E4OD, 4.10...box stock for now. 222k miles. running W80/85 for fuel 95% of the time, 6000+mi as of 7/7/2014
1990 F-350 crew cab 7.3L IDI Banks Sidewinder turbo, E4OD 182,xxx, My First Diesel now gone.
35+ years of Auto repair experience on anything and everything but a diesel, till 2009.
If you want it done right, do it yourself

Last edited by jga2z; 07-13-2011 at 12:41 PM.
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-13-2011, 12:50 PM
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My experience is that the great majority of the contaminants settle out after the RUG is added and the mix is allowed to settle. I take the settled W85 through a centrifuge and I can remove another two or three tablespoons of ultrafine gunk with several hours of centrifuging. There is probably 1/2-1 inch of gunk in the bottom of the settling barrel. I think you'll be fine. Don't waste your money on diesel. You're lucky with respect to your vehicles as well. Advancing your timing about 4 is what rsr911 did to reduce his smoking and it doesn't cost anything for you.

2003 F-250 XLT Crew Cab 7.3L, Chrome BigTex Grille Guard, Quad pillar - 3 ISSPRO gauges (trans, pyro, boost) and DP-Tuner F6; Roush fuel pressure / temperature / oil pressure gauges, Ford Severe Duty AIS, 31 row 6.0 transmission cooler, ScanGauge II, Marinco mod, Walker BTM, Full Force Stage 1 injectors

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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-13-2011, 07:45 PM Thread Starter
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Since I am not planning on driving this truck more than 12-1500 miles a year I don't really need to process a large quantity of WMO at any time. I have enough WMO to last a year as of now. If bag filters will do the job on a small scale OK I'll settle on that for now.

Even if this was my only vehicle I only drive 3-4k miles a year total.
However if gas goes up much more I will be driving the truck on W85 more.

1993 F-250 Ext cab 7.3 IDI NA, E4OD, 4.10...box stock for now. 222k miles. running W80/85 for fuel 95% of the time, 6000+mi as of 7/7/2014
1990 F-350 crew cab 7.3L IDI Banks Sidewinder turbo, E4OD 182,xxx, My First Diesel now gone.
35+ years of Auto repair experience on anything and everything but a diesel, till 2009.
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-13-2011, 08:21 PM
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Set your bag filters up so you can back flush them and that will be the end of that expense as well.

Jerry

2000 F250 Superduty 180K and counting 4X4 4R100 Glow Shift gauge - EGT - Boost - Tranny Temp Fuel Pressure on an A pillar mount Diesel Site boots Transgo shift kit K & N Stage II air filter 5" exhaust RiffRaff AIH to boost mod CCV mod DP-Tuner with W85 settings Amsoil Bypass oil filter 6.0 tranny cooler, W80, Cooling Mist water injection.
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-14-2011, 02:51 AM
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For that kind of mileage I'd set up some free barrels, stir in the gasoline, let settle until needed and just skim off the top and into the tank. Chances are you'll plug an onboard filter anyway as has happened to most WVO and WMO user I know. Leave the last 5 inches or so in the barrel for the next batch. FWIW I pour clean compressor oil straight into my tank when we change it at work, never had a problem. Upflows, CF's, and staged filters are aimed at much larger quantities of fuel. You only need like 100 gallons a year. Upflow IS controlled settling. Settling after blending should work great all by itself IF you skim the cleanest fuel from the top of the drum and don't disturb the crud on the bottom.

1986 F350 Crew Cab 4wd DRW conversion. 1993 7.3 IDI, 5spd Sterling 10.25 4.10 rear, kingpin D60 4.10 front, 12" HD clutch. A Banks waste gated turbo. Midwest rebuilt IP turned up. AC Delco 6.5 GM 12V GP's, working great. Running W80-W85 high performance zero-gel black diesel! 4wd and dually conversion is done. Washer mod on the D60 kingpins eliminated the death wobble. Custom 10" C-channel front bumper with military D-rings front and rear. Pintle hitch, receiver hitch, and goose neck hitch. 7800lbs full of fuel....
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-14-2011, 08:26 AM
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I make waste oil diesel fuel in 20 gallon batches. I blend waste oil at 80% with gasoline at 20% and have not put pump diesel into my engine in more than a year. After blending, I settle my blend for about 48 hours. I drain off the bottom of the blending tank 1/2 gallon of sludge every 12 hours. Once 10% of the blend has been drained off as sludge, I then filter through 2 y-traps with 40, then 80 mesh screens in them, then to one 1-micron 20" bag filter. I also back-flush that bag filter immediately after processing my blend with clean gasoline, then I blend that dirty gasoline with the next batch of waste oil to be processed. So, my system is pretty cheap to operate and works well.
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-16-2011, 11:12 PM Thread Starter
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Got my filter bags today and I'm rethinking my processing method a bit.
My thought now is I don't really want to deal with the issue of tuning my engine to the W85 and all the potential white smoking as I work it out. Just sticking to a WMO D2 blend.

Again at this point I'm not going to be driving this truck more than 200-250 miles a month so it'll be hard to dial in the best mix so I plan on small batches to test run.
I'm starting with 40 gal of WMO in my settling barrel which was filtered down with a heavy cotton T-shirt. I'd like to mix some RUG with it, but I only want to add as little as possible to effect enhanced settling. 10% would do that but how little a % of RUG would work? My WMO stock is 95% 10/40 oil, 5% ATF.
Then I'll filter 5 gals of that mixed with D2 (70/30-50/50 ???) thru 10 micron bag, to 5 micron bag, let settle for a couple days then thru a 1 micron bag and into the truck.

More comments please

1993 F-250 Ext cab 7.3 IDI NA, E4OD, 4.10...box stock for now. 222k miles. running W80/85 for fuel 95% of the time, 6000+mi as of 7/7/2014
1990 F-350 crew cab 7.3L IDI Banks Sidewinder turbo, E4OD 182,xxx, My First Diesel now gone.
35+ years of Auto repair experience on anything and everything but a diesel, till 2009.
If you want it done right, do it yourself
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-17-2011, 02:53 AM
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My IDI does not smoke excessively on W85 in stock tune, but it does smoke a little. I get more power and almost zero smoke with the timing advanced 4 degrees. I get normal IDI start up smoke. I also get black smoke on heavy acceleration due to my fuel screw being turned up. The truck runs the same on D2 or W85. In other words tuning is not necessary on the IDI's. I did not advance my timing originally to reduce smoke, I did it for more power and a side benefit was a very clean idle and part throttle.

1986 F350 Crew Cab 4wd DRW conversion. 1993 7.3 IDI, 5spd Sterling 10.25 4.10 rear, kingpin D60 4.10 front, 12" HD clutch. A Banks waste gated turbo. Midwest rebuilt IP turned up. AC Delco 6.5 GM 12V GP's, working great. Running W80-W85 high performance zero-gel black diesel! 4wd and dually conversion is done. Washer mod on the D60 kingpins eliminated the death wobble. Custom 10" C-channel front bumper with military D-rings front and rear. Pintle hitch, receiver hitch, and goose neck hitch. 7800lbs full of fuel....
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-17-2011, 11:37 AM Thread Starter
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This truck already has a bit of white smoke, and moderate smell of D2 all the time at idle. This obviously isn't normal, but it in no way seems to affect performance as the likely causes for white smoke on D2 would (starts easy, idles/runs smooth as glass).
Haven't really seen black smoke ever, although it's kinda hard to tell as exhaust has a flowmaster with pipe turned down and out ending just ahead of rear axle. Even the 1 time I did a test run pulling my 27ft 5th wheel.
I was shocked this truck pulls that camper WAY better than the '90 F350 w/Banks turbo. I am not at all lacking for power.
I have no idea where timing is set now, and no real way to check it.

1993 F-250 Ext cab 7.3 IDI NA, E4OD, 4.10...box stock for now. 222k miles. running W80/85 for fuel 95% of the time, 6000+mi as of 7/7/2014
1990 F-350 crew cab 7.3L IDI Banks Sidewinder turbo, E4OD 182,xxx, My First Diesel now gone.
35+ years of Auto repair experience on anything and everything but a diesel, till 2009.
If you want it done right, do it yourself
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-18-2011, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by jga2z View Post
...I'm starting with 40 gal of WMO in my settling barrel which was filtered down with a heavy cotton T-shirt. I'd like to mix some RUG with it, but I only want to add as little as possible to effect enhanced settling. 10% would do that but how little a % of RUG would work? My WMO stock is 95% 10/40 oil, 5% ATF.
Then I'll filter 5 gals of that mixed with D2 (70/30-50/50 ???) thru 10 micron bag, to 5 micron bag, let settle for a couple days then thru a 1 micron bag and into the truck.

More comments please
It is possible to make a very simple, primitive filtering system to make waste-oil-blend-diesel fuel. The trick in making a simple, but effective system is to understand that blending gasoline with waste oils will do most of the work for you.

However, the less gasoline you blend in, the longer the settling time, because precipitation rate is a function of fluid density verses particle density. Since WMO is a saturated solution containing free-carbon, and free-carbon is not significant more dense than the petroleum oil medium, then adding more gasoline will decrease the settling time.

1) Simply add gasoline at 15-20% to any waste oil.
2) Let it settle for 1-3 days
3) either drain off the sludge, or pour off the top the thin waste-oil-blend-diesel fuel.
4) Filter it down to 1-5 microns.

People in England who make waste-oil-diesel fuel tend to be more frugal than most people, so they commonly filter through bed sheets. The trick with using rags as waste-oil-blend-diesel fuel filters is any seem in the cloth is going to have a much larger pore size than the cloth itself. These large pores could easily allow particles through your filtering process
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-19-2011, 11:23 PM Thread Starter
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Here's today's update.
I have been using a chepo HF drill pump on my air drill since I'm not doing much volume.
Sucking of top of 55 gal setting for a week barrel Filled 2 5gal cans thru 10 micron bag added 5%RUG, set 24 hrs. sucked 2 qts off bottom then...
Pumped thru 5 micron bag:
1 5 gal can W85
1 5 gal can 70(5%RUG blend)/30 D2
and 1 5 gal can of straight WMO from big barrel

I'm going to pump the W85 and 70/30 mix thru a 1 micron bag tomorrow night in to clean cans for trial runs in the truck the following day.

Any thoughts on whether I should try W85 or the 70/30 mix 1st? It's around 100 deg here this week. I plan on just 2-3 gal in the Front tank which is near empty but was running fine on D2 till I switched to 1/3 full rear tank a week ago.

1993 F-250 Ext cab 7.3 IDI NA, E4OD, 4.10...box stock for now. 222k miles. running W80/85 for fuel 95% of the time, 6000+mi as of 7/7/2014
1990 F-350 crew cab 7.3L IDI Banks Sidewinder turbo, E4OD 182,xxx, My First Diesel now gone.
35+ years of Auto repair experience on anything and everything but a diesel, till 2009.
If you want it done right, do it yourself
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-20-2011, 08:07 AM
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I don't think it matters much which blend you try first, but you might want to give it a few days running on each mix
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-20-2011, 10:00 AM Thread Starter
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I'm gonna keep my fingers crossed that my processing was adequate to result in problem free running.
I am planning on using the truck to pull the 5th wheel to the lake 45 miles this Friday. I have a spare fuel filter as I have no idea how long the current one has been on.

1993 F-250 Ext cab 7.3 IDI NA, E4OD, 4.10...box stock for now. 222k miles. running W80/85 for fuel 95% of the time, 6000+mi as of 7/7/2014
1990 F-350 crew cab 7.3L IDI Banks Sidewinder turbo, E4OD 182,xxx, My First Diesel now gone.
35+ years of Auto repair experience on anything and everything but a diesel, till 2009.
If you want it done right, do it yourself
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-20-2011, 04:48 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rsr911 View Post
My IDI does not smoke excessively on W85 in stock tune, but it does smoke a little. I get more power and almost zero smoke with the timing advanced 4 degrees. I get normal IDI start up smoke. I also get black smoke on heavy acceleration due to my fuel screw being turned up. The truck runs the same on D2 or W85. In other words tuning is not necessary on the IDI's. I did not advance my timing originally to reduce smoke, I did it for more power and a side benefit was a very clean idle and part throttle.
Can I do a seat of the pants timing advance? I don't want to fork out the cash for a timing tool.
I use to do my 'shade tree' dyno tune on old SBC Chevy's with AT's by power braking the car to 1500 RPM and rotating the distributor til I got the most torque without pinging. Worked better than a timing light

1993 F-250 Ext cab 7.3 IDI NA, E4OD, 4.10...box stock for now. 222k miles. running W80/85 for fuel 95% of the time, 6000+mi as of 7/7/2014
1990 F-350 crew cab 7.3L IDI Banks Sidewinder turbo, E4OD 182,xxx, My First Diesel now gone.
35+ years of Auto repair experience on anything and everything but a diesel, till 2009.
If you want it done right, do it yourself
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-21-2011, 08:04 AM
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If your blend is right you won't need to advance your timing
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