2005 6.0 misfire? - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
6.0L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain Discussion of the 6.0L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 2003-Up Super Duties and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 6.0L Power Stroke engine.

 
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-11-2019, 01:43 AM Thread Starter
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2005 6.0 misfire?

A couple of days ago I started my pickup and let it warm up for a few minutes while I was loading my tools. It was about 20 degrees out but had been down in the low teens the night before. I had it plugged in for about 7 hours before I started it. It has been starting hard for the past 3 or 4 days, but I am pretty sure I have a weak battery. I will address that issue later. While it was idling I noticed it started sounding different. When I got in to leave, about 15 minutes later it felt like it was idling rough. When I put it in gear it was really rough and had no power. It definitely felt like a misfire. I hooked up and checked the codes with forscan. It was showing a PO284 code. Possible ideas? It has been running fine until I started it that morning. No issues except the slow start, but again a weak battery and it is cranking a little slow. Once it is running it has been running good.
Note, I do not have any fuel treatment in it for cold weather right now. I am running the blended fuel from the local convenience store. All of last winter every time I got to town to pick up some treatment the store was out, so I never ran any last winter. This year I haven't picked any up yet..... I usually try not to drive this pickup for work any more than I have to but my 150 is broke down.
Is it possible it was froze up, or am I looking for something more serious? If so, what? Like I said it has been running great until then.
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-11-2019, 06:36 AM
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Low voltage operation can kill the FICM.

Your injector code could be from a bad injector, a bad FICM, bad wiring, low battery voltage, poor fuel delivery, low pressure in the high pressure oil system, etc.

You need to start troubleshooting.

IMO you ALWAYS address voltage issues FIRST.

Also, when were fuel filters last changed? Same w/ oil filters, and what oil are you using?

You also need more than 45 psig fuel pressure or you will damage injectors. Problem is, you need to add on a fuel pressure sensor AND gauge to get that information. You could also take it in to Ford and have them test fuel pressure.

We need some cranking data:
FICM MPower volts
FICM LPower volts
FICM VPower volts
ICP volts
ICP pressure, psia
IPR % duty cycle
rpms

Get us the same data at cold and hot idle.

Mark
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Last edited by bismic; 02-21-2019 at 05:41 AM.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-12-2019, 01:28 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry it took so long to get back and check my post, working double shifts all weekend.
Good information as soon as I can I will plug back in and get the numbers to post back. I know when the engine was at bout 170 or 180 degrees the FICM voltage was at 48, the oil was changed about 1500 miles ago along with oil filter and upper fuel filter. I used Motorcraft filters and Rotella T4 15w40 oil. I honestly cant say when the fuel filter on the frame was changed last.
As soon as I can I will take the laptop out and see what the numbers are.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-12-2019, 02:58 PM Thread Starter
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It was warmer today, 23 degrees and sunny so I got out to look at the pickup again.
The numbers are
FICM Mpower volts cold, 48 warm 48.5.
FICM Lpower volts cold, bouncing from 13.5 to 14 warm, 14.
FICM Vpower volts cold, 14 warm, 14.

ICP Volts cold bouncing from 1.9 to 1.02 warm, .85.
ICP pressure if I selected the right option cold 5200 to 5300 warm, 4010 to 4078.

I could not figure out how to show IPR duty cycle.

It is running smooth now, not missing. I drove it around the block and it seems back to normal except it is showing a lot of blue / grey smoke from the exhaust and smells very rich. It has never had that problem before this.
I started it and ran these tests after connecting the battery charger for a few hours.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-12-2019, 03:34 PM
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Sounds like injector stiction to me, but it is important to keep voltage up or the FICM can get weak and affect injector operation.

It could also be the FICM, even if voltages look good. The logic side fails almost as often as the power side. Best way to troubleshoot that is if you have access to a known good FICM to try.

Mark
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-21-2019, 01:29 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks again for the information. I typed wrong in my previous post, and the temps were up to 33 not 23.
How big of a job is it to repair the injectors if that is the problem? Have to replace them or can they be taken apart and cleaned up?
My problem right now is I have 1 kid in her first year of college and 2 more in high school. I'm working 3 jobs to keep up with them. I have been a mechanic for over 20 years (gas only), so in addition to my regular job and part time jobs I also do minor repairs for people around town. Makes my college education worth a little that way! A couple of days ago I had to move the diesel away from my garage door so I could get another project in. I plugged it in for a few hours and started it up. The temps were around 15 outside that day. The starter turned well and the engine cranked like it should and started right away, but the engine was as I would call it loping. It sounded like my old drag racer did with the big cam in it! I let it run a minute or two to see if it would straighten out, but it didn't. I shut it down right away and haven't messed with it since.
I figure I will start with easy stuff as soon as it warms up. Going to check fuel filters, then go from there. I am also curious, is it possible it gelled up and is still having issues from that? It has less than a quarter tank of fuel, and no treatment in it. Another vehicle in town gelled up the other day, possibly getting fuel from the same station, so what are the odds that when spring hits it will be good? Also, I have read somewhere possibly on here that there is a product you can run in the oil that will clean the injectors and make it run better. I typically stay away from the miracle additives but if there is something that would help even temporarily it would be worth a try! If I can make it til summer before I have to spend money on it I would be a happy guy!
I am no stranger to turning wrenches and busting knuckels. I went to college for automotive tech but chose a different career path. The automotive is a sideline job I do mostly doing cheap work for a lot of elderly people in my small town so mechanics is no problem but I don't have much experience with these diesels!
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-21-2019, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bismic View Post
Low voltage operation can kill the FICM.

Your injector code could be from a bad injector, a bad FICM, bad wiring, low battery voltage, poor fuel delivery, low pressure in the high pressure oil system, etc.

You need to start troubleshooting.

IMO you ALWAYS address voltage issues FIRST.

Also, when were fuel filters last changed? Same w/ oil filters, and what oil are you using?

You also need more than 45 psig fuel pressure or you will damage injectors. Problem is, you need to add on a fuel pressure sensor AND gauge to get that information. You could also take it in to Ford and have them test fuel pressure.


We need some cranking data:
FICM MPower volts
FICM LPower volts
FICM VPower volts
ICP volts
ICP pressure, psia
IPR % duty cycle
rpms

Get us the same data at cold and hot idle.
As far as I can tell, you didn't provide information regarding the questions/text in bold above.

Your ICP volts dropping to .85 sounds suspect, The ICP data you posted doesn't match the voltage, the IPR data is very important. Still can't rule out issues in the high pressure oil system.

If you even have injector issues, there are many ways they fail. Spool valves stick, o-rings leak, plungers get damaged and fail, tips fall off, etc,

There is an Archoil product (oil additive) that does help stiction, if that is your issue. It is not always 100%, but many people see benefit. The most benefit is from fresh 5W40 oil. 15W40 oil is too thick in temps in the 30s and below. Who knows what will help over the internet. Answer the oil questions and maybe it will lead you to an answer on the additive question.

In the past, people have posted about polishing spool valves. Some said it worked, but it was a little risky - a few places it could go wrong and ruin the injector. People pretty much quit trying that. If it is a leak in an o-ring, then that can be rebuilt, but that is about it.

Lots of videos on replacing injectors. The difficulty depends on your skills. Study up though, there are places that (if not done correctly) could bite you.

Cleaning the cups, blowing out the hold-down bolt holes, always installing new copper washers, proper torque (calibrated torque wrench), not dropping parts into the engine, etc.

IMO you still need to be installing a fuel pressure gauge or have it tested. If fuel pressure is low, then you may need a new regulator spring (an upgraded one is now provided by Ford), or the pump is weak, or you have plugged filters or suction tube, a broken suction tube vacuum relief plug, an erroneous fuel level sending unit, etc. Lots to check. You could also check to see if you have bubbles of air in the fuel system. With the secondary fuel filter out, have someone turn the key on while you watch for bubbles when filling (also pay attention to the fill rate, it should be quick if the pump is strong and the flow isn't restricted). Be ready to have the key turned off quickly so not to make a fuel mess in the engine compartment. There is also a test to look for bubbles when cranking. This will show if an injector has mechanically failed and is allowing compression gas to back flow into the fuel lines (and also back pressure the fuel pump to restrict flow). Look up the youtube videos on that test. Be sure to crank with the alternator solenoid wire (by the vacuum pump and climate control blower) jumpered to the passenger battery. This method doesn't activate the glow plugs and is much easier on the alternator, batteries, and FICM.

As I said, I always solve voltage issues FIRST, but the SECOND thing is to fully inspect the fuel and oil systems. That includes pulling the filters to look at them.

We don't even know right now how old the filters are or what oil you are using.

Mark
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Last edited by bismic; 02-21-2019 at 06:09 AM.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-23-2019, 04:13 AM Thread Starter
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My apologies, for some reason I thought I posted my oil and filter information.
I am using Rotella 15-40. Oil and filter was changed in late October, about 2500 miles ago. The fuel filter on the top of the engine was also changed at that time, both filters are Motorcraft filters. The filters down on the frame, I am not sure when they were last changed. I cant find my notebook with that information in it, but thinking about it that was probably well over a year ago.
I might have the battery issue solved. I had a loose battery cable on one of the batteries. I cleaned and tightened all of the connections and it is cranking better, also both batteries are holding over 12.5 volts. I haven't had time to do much more with the pickup this week, and we are in a blizzard this weekend so it will be a while before I can get back to it. I will make sure I check the other things you suggested.
I will look into installing a fuel pressure gauge so I can monitor that. So, I think my next step should be change the fuel filters on the frame, find out my fuel pressure, and check the other things you listed for me.
The closest Ford garage is 60 miles away from me, and expensive. Taking it there will have to be a last resort and would have to wait until summer.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-23-2019, 04:42 AM
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Ignoring the bottom filter maintenance is a very poor practice. The bottom one is the one that does all the work - catches sludge and separates out the water. Also, OEM fuel filters are MUCH better quality than aftermarket and they come in pairs (you get both the upper and lower ones). Many expensive injectors have been ruined by plugged oil filters. winter weather makes it even more common ... with the chance of poor fuel that gels in the cold.

Fuel pressure gauge installation is not cheap, but here is a current thread on options:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...ge-setups.html

Mark
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-18-2019, 04:20 PM Thread Starter
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It finally warmed up to the high 40's today and things are drying up so I got back to the pickup. I had the charger on the batteries for a little over 24 hours. The pickup started fine and is running good. I drove it around until it got up to the normal operating temp, about 180 degrees. It felt like it was running good and had normal power, but it was smoking. Sitting at idle it smelled like heavy diesel exhaust, and normal driving was leaving a grey blue cloud. Whenever I accelerated it was blowing black smoke. It has never smoked, even when I am pulling a heavy load with a lot of throttle.
When I got back to the yard I checked the codes. I didn't connect my forscan, I just pulled codes with a code scanner. There is no check engine light on, but I was showing the code for cylinder 8 contribution inbalance.
Like I think I said in my original post, it ran without any issues one evening. The next morning it was running rough and no power.
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-18-2019, 06:14 PM
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Sure sounds like #8 injector replacement is in your future.

You might try a 5W40 synthetic oil and some Archoil 9100 (or Rev-X) - it has helped in some cases of stiction. 15W40 is just more prone to stiction. That said, an oil change isn't cheap on these trucks!

Even though stiction is more common in cold weather, it really sounds more like an injector that needs to be changed.

If your fuel pressure has been low, there might be even more injectors in the near future. Just hard to say. Probably the best thing would be to have an injector contribution test run at the dealership, but it is around $150 IIRC. With the code, it just seems that changing #8 would be the best approach now. You just don't want to let an injector that is over-fueling continue very long.

Auto Nation White Bear Lake has great internet prices on OEM injectors (and OEM is the way to go).

https://parts.autonationfordwhitebea...e-4c3z9e527brm

Good to find the battery issue! Good choice on using ForScan too!!

How many miles on the injectors?
Post up when you get the fuel pressure. If you haven't decided on a gauge system yet, the dealership can get you that information also (simulating WOT), but again it will cost about the same as the contribution test.

Also post up FICM MPower, LPower, and VPower. We might as well see how healthy the voltages are (just be aware that even w/ healthy voltages, the logic side can be having problems).

Mark
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Last edited by bismic; 03-18-2019 at 07:15 PM.
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-18-2019, 08:24 PM Thread Starter
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Again, thanks for the information. I was going to hook up forscan again and check voltages, but had too many other things on the to do list today. The truck has 245,000 miles. I bought it at 225,000 so I have no idea on the injectors. A few years ago I did tear it down and replace the oil cooler. That, the radiator and a set of batteries a couple of years ago is all I have had to do for repairs so far. I do want to pull the turbo this spring or summer and clean it, once in a while it will overboost.
I have not been driving the truck since the issues came up. I don't want to cause further damage to it. Tonight I did have to start it to move it so I can get another project to the shop. The temps have dropped to the mid 30's. It started good but did have a noticeable miss. So the colder it gets the worse the miss gets.
I have not had a chance to do anything to test fuel pressure yet. Saturday I was in town and was going to get a set of fuel filters, but they were out. Next payday I plan on changing oil to the lighter weight oil, changing fuel filters and doing some other maintenance.
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-18-2019, 08:43 PM
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Sounds like a good plan. I wish you luck w/ it.

I do think that if the injectors are original, they may all be close to needing replacement. Something to keep in mind going forward.

Keep us informed.

Mark
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