5R110W Problems & Questions - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
6.0L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain Discussion of the 6.0L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 2003-Up Super Duties and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 6.0L Power Stroke engine.

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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-18-2019, 10:19 AM Thread Starter
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5R110W Problems & Questions

Truck:
2007 Ford F250 CCSB 4x4
6.0L 316,000 miles


Problem History:
I've owned the truck for 5 years. It had 142,000 miles on it when I bought it. The truck has been an absolute dream until August 2018. I had a guy fall asleep at the wheel and rear end me at a pretty high rate of speed. Got the truck back from being fixed and I've had problems after problems but the issue I'm having now is the tranny.

Out of the blue the truck had a bad delay going into Drive or Reverse. Researched online and found that it was probably the line pressure solenoid. Pulled the pan, replaced that solenoid & disassembled/cleaned the remaining 6 solenoids. Changed internal & external filters as well as the TFT sensor. Filled it up with new Mercon SP and everything was back to normal.

Three weeks later it starts making the 2-3 shift really quick and now most of the time it just skips 2nd all together and goes 1-3. about 20 miles later, the tow/haul starts flashing, I pull the codes and get P2701 & PO756 (overdrive solenoid). This has me really confused because I can reset the KAM and it functions perfectly in OD for a day or two and then the tow/haul comes back and wont allow it into OD.

My question is why am I having troubles with 2nd gear but the trans is throwing OD codes?
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-18-2019, 11:40 AM
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The overdrive clutch is applied in gears 2, 4 and 6. That is why you lost 2nd gear eventually ending up in failure mode. The codes you list indicate a "condition" as in the clutch was stuck off and do not directly indicate a circuit malfunction. The diagnostics basically tell you to replace the solenoid and re-evaluate. If the new solenoid does not correct the concern internal repairs are likely necessary.

I don't see many solenoids fail. When I do it's in conjunction with debris in the fluid such as excessive clutch material from a clutch burning up or fine metallic debris especially if there are multiple solenoids involved... this would now be your second in short order.

Did you find any metal in the pan or burnt up material?

I am sure Mark will have some advice for you as well.


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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-18-2019, 01:00 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ford_doctor View Post
The overdrive clutch is applied in gears 2, 4 and 6. That is why you lost 2nd gear eventually ending up in failure mode. The codes you list indicate a "condition" as in the clutch was stuck off and do not directly indicate a circuit malfunction. The diagnostics basically tell you to replace the solenoid and re-evaluate. If the new solenoid does not correct the concern internal repairs are likely necessary.

I don't see many solenoids fail. When I do it's in conjunction with debris in the fluid such as excessive clutch material from a clutch burning up or fine metallic debris especially if there are multiple solenoids involved... this would now be your second in short order.

Did you find any metal in the pan or burnt up material?

I am sure Mark will have some advice for you as well.
When I pulled the pan initially, there was a little more clutch material in the pan than I wanted to see. I actually had to pull the pan and drain the fluids twice because the solenoid body gasket blew out the first time.
(It was a Saturday and no one had the gasket in stock, I knew it likely wouldn't work reusing the gasket but I figured it would help get rid of the remaining old fluid in the system if it didn't.)
When I pulled the pan the 2nd time to replace the solenoid body gasket, there was still some clutch material in the pan but no where near as much as it was. After that, it worked flawlessly for 3 weeks. I'm thinking more trash/debris was in the system and is causing the problems.

I just ordered the SSPC-B solenoid, both filters, and a case of Mercon SP. I'm going to replace that one, clean the rest again, and hope it solves my problem for now. I'm confident a rebuild is in my near future but this is literally the worst time for that to happen (building a house and remodeling 2 rent houses at the same time) so I'm trying to get as much life as I can out of it for now.

Last edited by 363coupe; 03-18-2019 at 01:25 PM.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-18-2019, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by 363coupe View Post
This has me really confused because I can reset the KAM and it functions perfectly in OD for a day or two and then the tow/haul comes back and wont allow it into OD.
After resetting it will operate normally until the problem occurs again, then the codes set and the failure mode protection kicks in. In this case, the failure mode is to not use overdrive, which is used in gears 2, 4, and 6, as pointed out above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 363coupe View Post
My question is why am I having troubles with 2nd gear but the trans is throwing OD codes?
To answer this you need to know how the trans works. It's really a three speed (the final derivation from the old C6 design) with the two speed overdrive unit in front.

Here is how it shifts:
First gear: Overdrive in 1:1, three speed in 3.09:1 Ratio is 3.09:
Second gear: Overdrive in 0.71:1, three speed in 3.09:1 Ratio is 2.2:1
Third gear: Overdrive in 1:1, three speed in 1.54:1 Ratio is 1.54:1
Fourth gear: Overdrive in 0.71:1, three speed in 1.54:1 Ratio is 1.09:1
Fifth gear: Overdrive in 1:1, three speed in 1:1 Ratio is 1:1
Sixth gear: Overdrive in 0.71:1, three speed in 1:1 Ratio is 0.71:1

Depending on a couple of different factors the trans uses either fourth or fifth gears, it NEVER uses all six gears.

So if the OD solenoid or clutch is working only gears 1, 3, and 5 are available.

Mark
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-18-2019, 01:30 PM Thread Starter
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Mark, even though there was clutch material in the pan when I initially pulled it, but everything worked flawlessly after that for about 3 weeks, would you say that I'm very near a rebuild or is it possible for me to get another year out of it if I can get the fluid clean and all debris out?
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-18-2019, 03:05 PM
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It's impossible to say. I think it's worth changing the fluid, that may prolong it's life.

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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-18-2019, 07:29 PM
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Just be aware that a drain and fill gets less than half the old fluid changed. If you are going the fluid change route, I would recommend at least three drain and fills (with some driving in between, to get at least a little mixing action) ... or it might even be worth doing a flush.


316k miles is pretty good longevity! I am curious as to the filter and fluid change history on it?

Mark
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 04:42 AM
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I have yet to see a flush "fix" a transmission. If you are going to throw money at it replace SS-B and see what happens from there.


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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 05:53 AM
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Totally agree, but since there is clutch material in there, he probably should get rid of it if he plans to just keep driving it ... and one simple drain and fill won't do that.
I wouldn't want to put a new solenoid into a dirty transmission (except in his case it most likely will get dirty again fairly quickly again, but who knows how long), but his posted goal was only "get a little more life", not fix.

I wouldn't recommend using $8/qt Mercon SP or LV (in this specific case) since he is likely to be doing at least a few drain/fill cycles if he attempts to get another year from it. Valvoline MaxLife is cheaper (Walmart carries it) and lots of people have been using it for years in place of SP and LV (me, I stick w/ SP).

363coupe - If you do put an overdrive clutch solenoid in it, you can save some money buying it from AutoNation White Bear Lake (part # 3C3Z-7J136-BA):
https://parts.autonationfordwhitebea...ly-3c3z7j136ba

Mark
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Last edited by bismic; 03-19-2019 at 06:32 AM.
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 06:55 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bismic View Post
Just be aware that a drain and fill gets less than half the old fluid changed. If you are going the fluid change route, I would recommend at least three drain and fills (with some driving in between, to get at least a little mixing action) ... or it might even be worth doing a flush.



316k miles is pretty good longevity! I am curious as to the filter and fluid change history on it?
This will be the 3rd pan drop on it in 3 weeks so hopefully most of the old fluid will be gone this time.

I'm ashamed to admit it but since I bought it with 142k miles, i've only dropped the pan once and that was when the TFT sensor started acting up around 180K miles. I replaced both filters then. I'm not sure if they were ever changed before I got it and I know they haven't been changed from 180k - 316k.
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 06:57 AM Thread Starter
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I have yet to see a flush "fix" a transmission. If you are going to throw money at it replace SS-B and see what happens from there.
I have the SSPC-B solenoid, both filters, and a case of Mercon SP ordered and should be arriving tomorrow.
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 07:14 AM
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3 drain and fills will get you close to 85% changed. Diminishing returns after that .... 4 will get you to 90%.

Thank you for your candid answer on the maintenance. I think the transmission fluid maintenance is where most owners SIGNIFICANTLY deviate from the manual! The manual says every 30k miles, but every time I turn around it seems like I am at 30k miles! What a difference from our Camry where they say to not ever change it.

Mark
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Last edited by bismic; 03-19-2019 at 07:17 AM.
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 07:14 AM Thread Starter
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This is a little off topic but what are the odds of the rear end collision I was involved in causing these problems? The transmission was performing flawlessly before I got hit. The guy that hit me was doing 70mph and I had slowed down to around 25mph to make a right hand turn (driver admitted to falling asleep). That's a pretty good impact!

His insurance company was and still is a nightmare to deal with. The truck ended up sitting at 2 different body shops over the course of 5 months before it ever got fixed. The day I got it back, the left rear brake caliper was locked up and the alternator was over charging. I fixed those and a week later my first transmission problems hit. I fixed that and the the following week the idler pulley came apart and roasted the belt. Fixed that and now 2 weeks later the trans acts up again.

Would sitting for 5 months or the impact from the collision have caused my transmission to get knocked around enough to cause the clutches to start wearing differently therefore creating debris in the system or caused something else that lead to all of these problems? Keep in mind my original problem was the PC-A (Line Pressure Solenoid) was starting to stick from the clutch material.

It's just really aggravating because for the 5 years I've owned it, the truck has been extremely reliable and I trusted it. Since the accident, it's been a problem every week and I have lost all trust in it now.
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 07:18 AM Thread Starter
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3 drain and fills will get you close to 85% changed. Diminishing returns after that .... 4 will get you to 90%.

Thank you for your candid answer on the maintenance.
I'm always on top of repairs and preventative maintenance on my trucks but transmissions have always scared me. I've always done all of my own repairs but I tend avoid dealing with transmission internals because it use to be an unknown area to me. Now that I've been into this one, my confidence is higher and I will start adding transmissions into my preventative maintenance ritual.
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