Can I trust a 6.0L Bullet proof motor? - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
6.0L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain Discussion of the 6.0L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 2003-Up Super Duties and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 6.0L Power Stroke engine.

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post #1 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-25-2018, 01:13 PM Thread Starter
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Cool Can I trust a 6.0L Bullet proof motor?

Good day, Gentlemen & Ladies. Long time truck owner, first time considering diesel. Looking to purchase a 03’ F250 4x4 Crew with the 6.0 diesel, which has recently been Bulletproofed by a reputable Diesel shop. She’s only got 180k on it and he’s recently replaced: egr, new turbo, upgraded oil cooler, inter cooler, and some couplings, High pressure oil pump, Injectors. New ICO valve & IPR, gaskets/seals, scan gauge 2 and oil change. Just need to know if this Bulletproofing really works?? Grew up around diesel and know if taken care of and driven properly, these motors can last a million miles. I don’t have the extra cash to be dumping into a truck that may only last another 50-100k. Any advice is truly appreciated.
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post #2 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-25-2018, 02:07 PM
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From what I hear you need to watch how much you chip them, can still have enough problems other wise. More HP try cranking out the worse it gets.
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post #3 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-25-2018, 02:51 PM
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When you say the EGR has been replaced, what does that mean?

EGR is a technology, not a part. You have the EGR cooler, the EGR valve, the EGR throttle plate (on the early models). What specifically has been done and what brand of parts have been installed?

Same question with the "upgraded oil cooler". What brand of oil cooler was installed?

Same question on the injectors, the Charge-Air-Cooler (some people call it the intercooler), the HPOP, etc?

Were studs installed?

Mark
06 F250 CC SB FX4 Lariat;ARP studs;OEM gaskets;Banks exhaust;DynaTrac Ball joints;Coolant filter;High-Idle mod;RACCCV6000;JimmiJammers;Ravelco;SynchroMax xfer case;Fumoto valve;Harpooned;CPOhighwayProducts toolbox;tracrac;Fox Weatherboots;Wet Okole Seat Covers;BriteBox;Re-flashed;Quadzilla Recon XZT Fuel Press;Blue FPR spring;DashDAQ;PHP FICM;RiffRaff boots;DCPower270A XP;PowerInverter;Rancho7000's;BPD EGR cooler;One-piece HPOP fitting;D-plugs&standpipes;BPD Billet WaterPump;SCT w/ Matts SRL+;ELC Ultra;DuraTracs
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post #4 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-25-2018, 04:39 PM Thread Starter
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Can I trust a 6.0l Bulletproof diesel

Well, Bismic, I may be a girl, but I do know the difference, I just forgot the valve part, after I wrote ERG. Yes, the studs were taken care of. As for all other questions about parts and brands, I just learned of the truck a few hours ago, in an ad & I listed what info was given in said ad. I haven’t seen it in person yet or spoken with the owner. I will bring these questions up when I do reach the owner and can ask them. Thanks for the advice
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post #5 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-25-2018, 05:28 PM
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I had no idea of who you are or aren't - really doesn't matter to me. Lots of new owners have said the same thing - ie bullet-proofed w/ EGR delete. Just saying that those phrases don't communicate anything useful. The term bulletproofed has been so over-used it really has no meaning anymore. The quality or the parts and the work is what is important.

Ford oil coolers or oil coolers from BulletProofDiesel are about the only ones worth anything. Some vendors say they have OEM oil coolers, but have a terrible record for early failure (Sinister being one of the more common ones IMO).

EGR deletes sometimes are just a freeze plug welded into one end of the EGR cooler. This rarely stays put for any significant length of time and still allows for exhaust gas int the coolant if the cooler ruptures. Two plugs are required, but you need stainless plugs welded in rather than freeze plugs. Some EGR cooler deletes do not allow for adequate support of the up-pipe, some do.

As far as injectors go, the best bet is to get Ford (OEM) remanned injectors. I have heard that Alliant is selling new injectors now (finally) manufactured by PurePower. They haven't been providing long enough to have an established track record yet (IMO anyway). They might be good. Most other injector suppliers have a worse record for reliability. Some have good customer service though and will give you another injector if one of theirs goes bad. That helps, but it is still a pain.

The Ford (OEM) HPOP's on these early model 6.0L's have a terrible track record. Some of the aftermarket ones are great (Adrenaline being one) and some are not so great.

I would think that the 6.0L is more of a 400k or maybe 500k max engine. Getting over that without rebuilding the entire top end would surprise me.

When you buy sensors (ICP sensor or IPR valve, etc., you need to stick w/ OEM.

If you buy it, get to know how to use the scangauge. It can be VERY helpful!

I really like the 6.0L engine, but there are weak points and if they are properly resolved, you can do well. Steep learning curve though, so sorry if I came across poorly in my first response.

I wish you luck w/ your future purchase.

Mark
06 F250 CC SB FX4 Lariat;ARP studs;OEM gaskets;Banks exhaust;DynaTrac Ball joints;Coolant filter;High-Idle mod;RACCCV6000;JimmiJammers;Ravelco;SynchroMax xfer case;Fumoto valve;Harpooned;CPOhighwayProducts toolbox;tracrac;Fox Weatherboots;Wet Okole Seat Covers;BriteBox;Re-flashed;Quadzilla Recon XZT Fuel Press;Blue FPR spring;DashDAQ;PHP FICM;RiffRaff boots;DCPower270A XP;PowerInverter;Rancho7000's;BPD EGR cooler;One-piece HPOP fitting;D-plugs&standpipes;BPD Billet WaterPump;SCT w/ Matts SRL+;ELC Ultra;DuraTracs

Last edited by bismic; 03-25-2018 at 05:55 PM.
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post #6 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-25-2018, 08:35 PM Thread Starter
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No worries, mate, no offense taken or implied. The ad did say all parts he replaced were OEM Ford parts only. I’ve owned both Ford & Dodge 4x4 pick ups, but always seemed to get the longest use out of my gas fords. I am both excited and scared about buying a diesel, as I know regular maintenance is a must but that running one is also more expensive then a gasser. I’m trying to find one that also has as much maintenance history as possible. Some guys are for adding a Chip other say no? I do not know how to use the scan gauge but would probably head down to our local diesel truck shop and have them show me what’s what. Maybe see what other gauges need to be installed. I am ever so grateful for all the info and plan to use it when I look at the truck, thanks!!
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post #7 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-25-2018, 08:56 PM
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The only thing that isn't good about OEM Ford parts would be the HPOP, but it may be a perfectly good one. They seem to be "hit-and-miss".

The new OEM oil coolers are updated and work fine AS LONG AS YOU GET RID OF THE FORD GOLD COOLANT, and go with a CAT EC-1 rated ELC coolant.

There are youtube videos on programming and using the scangauge, so that should be pretty easy.

Find out if head studs were installed.

If the EGR cooler is still installed, then that isn't all-that-bad IMO. The early model year EGR coolers were pretty robust as long as you took care of the coolant.

Lastly, a fuel pressure gauge is HIGHLY recommended. Low fuel pressure is a common reason for failed injectors. You need to have a way to always look at what your fuel pressure is.

Mark
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post #8 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-27-2018, 09:12 PM
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Can I trust a 6.0L Bullet proof motor

dragonl8t, read my post in the thread, “Bulletproofing - Do I need it?”


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Last edited by GlacierAZ; 03-28-2018 at 01:09 PM.
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post #9 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-28-2018, 09:48 AM
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NO, you cannot trust the early build 2003 6.0, even after bulletproofing... My 2004 with leftover early build 2003 6.0 (quite possibly the worst engine ever put in any truck ever) has been bulletproofed and I still have problems with it, I can't trust it, and that's with 88,000 original miles... It's currently down again with another Camshaft Position Sensor signal failure (either CMP sensor again or the pigtail/harness this time)... It's on it's 3rd Turbo, 2nd FICM, 2nd CKP sensor, 3rd set of Injectors, 2nd Injector harness, 2nd water pump, 2nd clutch fan (this time a 7.3 fan and adapter), 2nd Intercooler, 2nd set of CAC tubes/boots, 3rd VSS Sensor, 3rd ICP sensor, 2nd IPR sensor, 2nd engine (first blew at 31k miles due to failed injector)... IMHO, do not walk away from an early build 6.0, RUN AWAY FROM IT... As fast as you can, and don't look back... With this engine, once you fix any particular problem, it's not long before any one of myriads of known issues will creep up and you'll play the game of break down, fix, break down, fix, break down, fix, rinse, repeat until you finally throw in the towel and give up, but not until you have spent $$$ Thousands of dollars in the process... Don't believe me...? Take some time and search this "6.0 Engine and Drivetrain" forum and look at all the problems this engine has had over the years... If for some reason you decide to ignore this advice, first thing I would do is go out and buy the Autoenginuity Diagnostics Software, load it on a laptop and get real familiar with how to use it and how to diagnose your engine, 'cuz your gonna' spend a lot of time using it trying to troubleshoot all the problems you are going to have... I would also install a Scanguage II monitor, load all the additional PID's for the 6.0, and learn how to use the SCII to diagnose all the known issues when you break down 'cuz you are gonna' break down... It's not a matter of when, it's a matter of how often...

'04 F250 KR - '14 F350 Lariat -

Last edited by stevedunham-2; 03-28-2018 at 01:58 PM.
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post #10 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-28-2018, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevedunham-2 View Post
NO, you cannot trust the early build 2003 6.0... My 2004 with leftover early build 2003 6.0 (quite possibly the worst engine ever put in any truck ever) has been bulletproofed and I still have problems with it, I can't trust it, and that's with 88,000 original miles... It's currently down again with another Crankshaft Position Sensor signal failure (either CMP sensor again or the pigtail/harness this time)... It's on it's 3rd Turbo, 2nd FICM, 2nd CKP sensor, 3rd set of Injectors, 2nd Injector harness, 2nd water pump, 2nd clutch fan (this time a 7.3 fan and adapter), 2nd Intercooler, 2nd set of CAC tubes/boots, 3rd VSS Sensor, 3rd ICP sensor, 2nd IPR sensor, 2nd engine (first blew at 31k miles due to failed injector)... IMHO, do not walk away from an early build 6.0, RUN AWAY FROM IT... As fast as you can, and don't look back... With this engine, once you fix any particular problem, it's not long before any one of myriads of known issues will creep up and you'll play the game of break down, fix, break down, fix, break down, fix, rinse, repeat until you finally throw in the towel and give up, but not until you have spent $$$ Thousands of dollars in the process... Don't believe me...? Take some time and search this "6.0 Engine and Drivetrain" forum and look at all the problems this engine has had over the years... If for some reason you decide to ignore this advice, first thing I would do is go out and buy the Autoenginuity Diagnostics Software, load it on a laptop and get real familiar with how to use it and how to diagnose your engine, 'cuz your gonna' spend a lot of time using it trying to troubleshoot all the problems you are going to have... I would also install a Scanguage II monitor, load all the additional PID's for the 6.0, and learn how to use the SCII to diagnose all the known issues when you break down 'cuz you are gonna' break down... It's not a matter of when, it's a matter of how often...

Some engines are just lemons. Even a remanned engine can be a problem. On another forum a member found a nut left in his oil cooler sump on his remanned engine. Unfortunately it happens .... way too often. That said, I believe it is still an extremely small percentage.

Not sure the 6.0L is any better or worse for those kind of problems.

Fuel pressure and clean fuel are critical to the injectors. Not sure I would be comfortable w/ the early 58v FICMS as you ran, but who knows if that contributed. 50 psig minimum at MAX load or WOT.

Making sure the turbo vanes don't stick (monitoring the boost and vgt % command as well as watching for smoke) is important.

Getting the right coolant in it is also critical - when the Ford Gold clogs up, things get hot (stuck turbos and overfueling can also get things hot) ..... and heat is a killer!

Using OEM sensors is critical. Aftermarket sensors fail WAY too often.

One thing not yet mentioned in this thread is that the 2003 and some 2004 had an issue w/ some wiring harness failures (chafing, etc). IMO those are the worst - hard to troubleshoot.

Personally, I think a 2003 could be a good purchase, but you have to do your homework (and then still you take some chances like any used vehicle purchase).

Mark
06 F250 CC SB FX4 Lariat;ARP studs;OEM gaskets;Banks exhaust;DynaTrac Ball joints;Coolant filter;High-Idle mod;RACCCV6000;JimmiJammers;Ravelco;SynchroMax xfer case;Fumoto valve;Harpooned;CPOhighwayProducts toolbox;tracrac;Fox Weatherboots;Wet Okole Seat Covers;BriteBox;Re-flashed;Quadzilla Recon XZT Fuel Press;Blue FPR spring;DashDAQ;PHP FICM;RiffRaff boots;DCPower270A XP;PowerInverter;Rancho7000's;BPD EGR cooler;One-piece HPOP fitting;D-plugs&standpipes;BPD Billet WaterPump;SCT w/ Matts SRL+;ELC Ultra;DuraTracs

Last edited by bismic; 03-28-2018 at 10:53 AM.
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post #11 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-28-2018, 12:03 PM
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Some engines are just lemons.

Mark kinda' just proved my point... My brandy new, ordered from Fleet Sales with Employee Discount 2004 F250 Super Duty Crew Cab 4x4 6.0 King Ranch came from the factory with a leftover early build 2003 engine... I waited until 2004 to avoid the "first year of a new model" problems and STILL ended up with a 2003 engine...! It started to leak oil after the first drive home and parking it in the driveway on day 1, and to this day, after 14 years of "iffy" service, it still has multiple problems and I'm still fixing it more often than I can drive it... It's never been a daily driver, and never will be... This engine, at least for me, is the very definition of a LEMON... When it does indeed run well, it doesn't for long before the next issue pops up... I regret buying it, hanging on to it for soooo long, and get a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach every time I sit in the drivers seat and turn the key to see if it will start or not on any given day... I am at this very moment about to buy a CMP Pigtail and wiring repair kit to replace the CMP sensor wiring 'cuz it currently lost the CMP signal again (3rd time in less than a year) and it won't start... Once that is resolved, I still have the black smoke from Turbo problem to continue troubleshooting, and that could be exhaust/intake leaks, stuck VGT vanes, and about 1 dozen other issues causing that problem... But by all means, go ahead and spend your hard earned money on one of these 6.0's... Don't ever say you weren't warned...

'04 F250 KR - '14 F350 Lariat -
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post #12 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-28-2018, 12:51 PM
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I have owned 2 6.0 trucks. The first I owned from 20,000 miles until 140,000. I had to do the full bulletproof at 95,000 when the head gasket gave out. then I had problems with the worthless injectors that were installed at the same time. other than that and a clutch it was a trouble free truck that was great. I now own another 6.0 with 150,000 miles I bought for $5,000. It was in great shape other than a known blown hg and the coolant system was totally crap. I had the cap off and wen through the whole thing. Any how, I think it is as good as any if it has the right parts installed. If you put the wrong parts on it you will be hating life. thats my 2 cents.
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2004 Ford f350 6.0 4x4 king ranch 4" mbar turbo back, sct x4 with php tunes, running full synthetic in every part that takes oil. Arp head studs and egr delete. Coolant bypass and oil bypass.
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post #13 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-28-2018, 01:33 PM
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Hi Dragon,

You couldn't give me a 6.0, or a 6.4. I bought a 6.0 with less than 100,000 miles on it, it was stock. Three weeks later I had to buy a reman engine for $14,500.00 and I spent 18 days in Dalhart, Texas to add insult to injury. I had an 07 F-350, nicest truck I've ever owned..... after the 1 yr warranty was up I spent another $4,000.00 bulletproofing it....... I was always afraid it was going to blow again and after my friend's bulletproofed 6.4 blew I sold it. Hated to say goodbye, I loved the truck but would never get another 6.0.
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post #14 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-28-2018, 01:53 PM
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I will bring these questions up when I do reach the owner and can ask them.
It's safe to assume the truck NEEDED to be bulletproofed due to some failure. Owners of good running 6.0's generally do not drop the money into a "good" 6.0, if there is such a thing... I would strongly recommend you ask the owner "Why are you selling the truck AFTER you spent the money to bulletproof it...?" I would also suggest you have a scan tool of some sort and ask the owner if you can pull any current DTC codes... If he balks, that is a BIG RED FLAG...!

'04 F250 KR - '14 F350 Lariat -

Last edited by stevedunham-2; 03-28-2018 at 02:01 PM.
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post #15 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-28-2018, 03:03 PM
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Have to disagree w/ the above. At 100k miles AND ABSOLUTELY NO ISSUES, I dropped quite a bit of cash into upgrades and power adding mods. Totally "discretionary" spending.

Am at 200k now and STILL running great.

Best truck I have ever owned.

Also, when I said some engines are lemons, I was referring to the occasional engine turned out from the factory vs ALL 6.0L's.

Like mt454casull said - put the wrong parts in and you will not be happy. Also, there are things that are required when doing maintenance and when operating. We have talked about some of the maintenance and upgrades, but you do need to also keep an eye on the engine operating parameters.

If you let a stuck turbo go for a long time, put in an undersized ccv filter, don't pay attention to fuel pressure (must check at WOT and stay above 50 psig always), use the wrong coolant, use the wrong filters, operate w/ bad sensors, throw in a tune on top of other problems, etc, you will make problems worse - sometimes a LOT worse..

Mark
06 F250 CC SB FX4 Lariat;ARP studs;OEM gaskets;Banks exhaust;DynaTrac Ball joints;Coolant filter;High-Idle mod;RACCCV6000;JimmiJammers;Ravelco;SynchroMax xfer case;Fumoto valve;Harpooned;CPOhighwayProducts toolbox;tracrac;Fox Weatherboots;Wet Okole Seat Covers;BriteBox;Re-flashed;Quadzilla Recon XZT Fuel Press;Blue FPR spring;DashDAQ;PHP FICM;RiffRaff boots;DCPower270A XP;PowerInverter;Rancho7000's;BPD EGR cooler;One-piece HPOP fitting;D-plugs&standpipes;BPD Billet WaterPump;SCT w/ Matts SRL+;ELC Ultra;DuraTracs

Last edited by bismic; 03-28-2018 at 03:14 PM.
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