Crank no start - “0” rpms - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
6.0L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain Discussion of the 6.0L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 2003-Up Super Duties and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 6.0L Power Stroke engine.

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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-23-2018, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
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Crank no start - “0” rpms

Trying to diagnose a random crank no start — has happened twice over the last week.

While cranking, I get plenty of ICP pressure, ficm is good — but I noticed on my edge insight that RPMs were at “0”. Even though i was getting a crank and it didnt sound like a starter issue, my buddy went underneath and tapped on the solenoid. After a few taps, I cranked and the RPM’s went up and the truck started. Not sure how this would be related but wondering if there is a bad sensor that is telling the engine there are no RPMs to start? I definitely hear the engine itself cranking over and have plenty of oil pressure

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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-23-2018, 08:10 PM
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Likely to be the crank sensor (CKP), or its wiring.

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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-23-2018, 10:25 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bismic View Post
Likely to be the crank sensor (CKP), or its wiring.

damn. quick google search and it seems like it is kind of a pain to get to. Any thoughts on how I could verify this?

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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-24-2018, 05:39 AM
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Well, let me back up ............

Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselnoob1 View Post
Trying to diagnose a random crank no start — has happened twice over the last week.

While cranking, I get plenty of ICP pressure, ficm is good — but I noticed on my edge insight that RPMs were at “0”. Even though i was getting a crank and it didn't sound like a starter issue, my buddy went underneath and tapped on the solenoid. After a few taps, I cranked and the RPM’s went up and the truck started. Not sure how this would be related but wondering if there is a bad sensor that is telling the engine there are no RPMs to start? I definitely hear the engine itself cranking over and have plenty of oil pressure
The reason I wasn't more confident in that assessment is highlighted above.

You want to be confident of the repair, and confidence may be hard to deliver. That said - I am sure that the most common cause of a loss in rpm signal is a CKP or CKP wiring issue.

You posted some conflicting information and you really are posting no numbers/data (except a "0" rpm that isn't consistent):

1. Plenty of ICP pressure and a weak crank don't necessarily go hand in hand
2. It didn't sound like a starter issue, but you "imply" that tapping on it caused the rpm's to be stronger and you actually got an rpm signal then?
3. You did get it to start after tapping on the starter

So please verify a couple of things.

1. When you said the "rpm's went up", did you actually mean you then got an rpm signal or was it simply an audible increase in rpms?
2. When you get the no-start, are you losing Cam/Crank Sync or FICM sync?
3. When you get the no-start, are you getting a fuel pulse width signal?
4. Might as well post up the actual ICP cranking pressure and volts, and the IPR %duty cycle. I would prefer to see this information when it doesn't start, but just getting data at any point would help.
5. Might as well post actual voltage numbers for the FICM (MPower, LPower, AND VPower) when cranking!


In summary - your issue is an intermittent one so it is going to be hard enough to identify, let alone over the internet. If you were able to start it, then the contributing issue had temporarily gone away. How do you test in confidence for an issue that may not be there when you are testing?

You didn't post any codes. We need a check for codes with a good code reader. Maybe an electrical code for the crank sensor will show up.

Also, I am not the biggest fan of the Edge insight, so I am not familiar with it. I don't know if it was having issues reporting an rpm value or the PCM wasn't getting one. Were you getting a dash gauge rpm indication?

You can check the resistance between the CKP connector on the PCM Pin 30 (harness side) and Pin 41 (harness side). Resistance should be 300-400 ohms. Just be aware that checking it on an intermittent short or open circuit may or may not reveal anything. Also, check the connector and the harness wiring for chafing. CKP wiring near A/C compressor and belt tensioner is a common chafe point.

If tapping on the starter improved the crank, then it sounds like a starter issue also. That said, a starter issue won't cause a "0" rpm reading when you know it is actually cranking.

These may help (but I haven't looked them over in quite awhile):
CKP removal and installation:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...tallation.html

Mark
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Last edited by bismic; 10-24-2018 at 06:18 AM.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-24-2018, 07:58 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks so much for the further info... to be clear, I’m not convinced that tapping on the starter was anything more than a coincidence as the cranking did not audibly change after this.

I will try to get some more data today although all I have at my disposal is the insight. Thanks again.

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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-24-2018, 10:40 AM
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Do you have Ficm Sync and is it showing RPM on the dash gauge?

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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-24-2018, 10:30 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DanO5150 View Post
Do you have Ficm Sync and is it showing RPM on the dash gauge?

The problem did not occur today so I do not have any crank/no start info. Will keep an eye on ficm sync next time it happens.

I did pull a crank position sensor code

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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-24-2018, 10:35 PM
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Don't keep it a secret ............ what is the code number?

Mark
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-24-2018, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by dieselnoob1 View Post
The problem did not occur today so I do not have any crank/no start info. Will keep an eye on ficm sync next time it happens.

I did pull a crank position sensor code
In my earlier post, I asked about cam/crank sync in addition to FICM sync.
I also asked about Fuel Pulse Width, along w/ ICP and IPR data.

This data is needed so that we won't be as likely to just guess at a solution.

Mark
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-24-2018, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanO5150 View Post
Do you have Ficm Sync and is it showing RPM on the dash gauge?
What does the dash rpm indication give you that the PCM "rpm PID" doesn't?

Mark
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-24-2018, 10:59 PM Thread Starter
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Don't keep it a secret ............ what is the code number?
ha sorry been a long day, didn't feel like running back out to the truck tonight. saw the code earlier today but don't remember the number. I'll check in the morning

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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-24-2018, 11:01 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bismic View Post
In my earlier post, I asked about cam/crank sync in addition to FICM sync.
I also asked about Fuel Pulse Width, along w/ ICP and IPR data.

This data is needed so that we won't be as likely to just guess at a solution.
afaik i cannot pull cam/crank sync or fuel pulse width on my edge unless they are labeled something other than what i am looking for.


I can pull icp/ipr --- what is helpful, cranking? idle? driving? all of the above?

Thank you...

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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-30-2018, 11:00 AM Thread Starter
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Ok finally pulled the code - P0335.

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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-07-2018, 04:18 PM Thread Starter
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No start issue has occurred again. No Rpms, no ficm sync. Truck turns over, icp pressure seems plenty. Any other values I can post now that it is exhibiting the problem? Keep in mind I only have an insight to view on right now

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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-07-2018, 06:08 PM
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See post #2

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