Hard Cold Start for 6.0 - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
6.0L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain Discussion of the 6.0L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 2003-Up Super Duties and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 6.0L Power Stroke engine.

 
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-26-2019, 09:21 PM Thread Starter
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Hard Cold Start for 6.0

I've been chasing a No Start on Cold start with my 6.0 and I hope someone might have some insight chasing this condition. I have been reading for a while on the subject to make sure I understand the issue. I have no DTC codes that are popping up (had one for a bad glow plug which I replaced and cleared). I replaced my battery as they were old and no longer holding a full charge and they needed to be replaced anyways. Also unplugged the ICP to force it into default and that didn't help the start at all (made it worse). Once I crank over the first time, it will start every time until I let it sit for a long time. I was thinking I had a leaking HPOP or oil system (still might) but also replaced the standpipes a couple years ago (so opening its not that issue).

I do have Forscan logs on the first crank (the no start) and then the second start (when it does start)


https://www.thedieselstop.com/forums...128318&thumb=1
This is the crank with no start

https://www.thedieselstop.com/forums...128320&thumb=1
This is the second attempt with it starting

It looks like on the no crank condition, the IPR spikes to the closed position right before it dies. But the top three horizontal lines are the FICM voltages and they seem weird on the no start.

Thanks for any help.
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2004 F350 6.0L SD Crew Cab Lariat SB... 2 1/2" Zone front leveling kit with 4" blocks, 5100 Bilstein and Performance mfg coolant filter, Zoodad mod, and Blue spring Regulator.

2002 F-250 SD Crew Cab XLT, Short Bed, Auto, 3.73 Limited Slip, aFe Magnum Force Air Box, PCM code VDH2, Glasstite Raven Topper, Tekonsha Envoy Brake Controller, 3 gauge A-pillar mount with ISSPRO EGT, ISPPRO Boost and Autometer Voltmeter, Autometer Steering Column Autometer Tranny Gauge, Zoodad mod, Rancho 9000x Front and Rear, Walker BT muffler, now a Predator programmer running 85hp mode, Boost Relief Value and Tru Cool Max tranny cooler with more mods to come..
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-27-2019, 07:52 AM
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early or late 04?
cranking rpm's?
oil pressure gauge come up on the dash when cranking?
OEM oil filter and oil filter cap?
fuel pulse width when cranking?

Mark
06 F250 CC SB FX4 Lariat;ARP studs;OEM gaskets;Banks exhaust;DynaTrac Ball joints;Coolant filter;High-Idle mod;RACCCV6000;JimmiJammers;Ravelco;SynchroMax xfer case;Fumoto valve;Harpooned;CPOhighwayProducts toolbox;tracrac;Fox Weatherboots;Wet Okole Seat Covers;BriteBox;Re-flashed;Quadzilla Recon XZT Fuel Press;Blue FPR spring;DashDAQ;PHP FICM;RiffRaff boots;DCPower270A XP;PowerInverter;Rancho7000's;BPD EGR cooler;One-piece HPOP fitting;D-plugs&standpipes;BPD Billet WaterPump;SCT w/ Matts SRL+;ELC Ultra;DuraTracs
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-27-2019, 10:22 AM Thread Starter
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Its a stock Motorcraft oil filter (and cap) that hasn't been changed in 3k miles and the truck has been running fine up until last week.

It was parked for a week as I don't drive it everyday and It's a early build 04 and oil pressure is showing on the dash as it cranks.



I ran a new scan this morning with the RPM and the Fuel pulse width added to the FORScan log. Its seems that the ICP Actual pressure comes up and then it drops to below 500 psi (which is the minimum to fire the injectors). It also seems that the IPR is peaking to a closed position to build pressure, but then drops off really quick. Also not sure about that FICM logic voltage at 10.5v. When that voltage drops that low (around the 7sec mark) it looks like the ICP actual starts dropping psi and the IPR is also dropping (bleeding off oil to the crank case).



Hard Cold Start for 6.0-img_20191127_095437.jpg


New Scan for no start on first crank
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2004 F350 6.0L SD Crew Cab Lariat SB... 2 1/2" Zone front leveling kit with 4" blocks, 5100 Bilstein and Performance mfg coolant filter, Zoodad mod, and Blue spring Regulator.

2002 F-250 SD Crew Cab XLT, Short Bed, Auto, 3.73 Limited Slip, aFe Magnum Force Air Box, PCM code VDH2, Glasstite Raven Topper, Tekonsha Envoy Brake Controller, 3 gauge A-pillar mount with ISSPRO EGT, ISPPRO Boost and Autometer Voltmeter, Autometer Steering Column Autometer Tranny Gauge, Zoodad mod, Rancho 9000x Front and Rear, Walker BT muffler, now a Predator programmer running 85hp mode, Boost Relief Value and Tru Cool Max tranny cooler with more mods to come..

Last edited by CurtAllen; 11-27-2019 at 10:56 AM.
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-27-2019, 11:55 AM
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Sounds like air test time. Pull the IPR valve and use the test fitting that fits in its place to do an air test. If you hear air leaking backwards to the oil filter housing (or the turbo drain tube), then you have a bad HPOP.

Mark
06 F250 CC SB FX4 Lariat;ARP studs;OEM gaskets;Banks exhaust;DynaTrac Ball joints;Coolant filter;High-Idle mod;RACCCV6000;JimmiJammers;Ravelco;SynchroMax xfer case;Fumoto valve;Harpooned;CPOhighwayProducts toolbox;tracrac;Fox Weatherboots;Wet Okole Seat Covers;BriteBox;Re-flashed;Quadzilla Recon XZT Fuel Press;Blue FPR spring;DashDAQ;PHP FICM;RiffRaff boots;DCPower270A XP;PowerInverter;Rancho7000's;BPD EGR cooler;One-piece HPOP fitting;D-plugs&standpipes;BPD Billet WaterPump;SCT w/ Matts SRL+;ELC Ultra;DuraTracs
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-27-2019, 03:02 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, I'll have to see if I can find that fitting on Amazon, as I was reading it might be hard to find the correct one to take an air line fitting.

Just a question though, it looks like the HPOP was pressurizing the system as the ICP actual pressure during cranking was increasing until it hit 1700 psi. If I had an HPOP leak, wouldn't it prevent it from pressurizing?

2004 F350 6.0L SD Crew Cab Lariat SB... 2 1/2" Zone front leveling kit with 4" blocks, 5100 Bilstein and Performance mfg coolant filter, Zoodad mod, and Blue spring Regulator.

2002 F-250 SD Crew Cab XLT, Short Bed, Auto, 3.73 Limited Slip, aFe Magnum Force Air Box, PCM code VDH2, Glasstite Raven Topper, Tekonsha Envoy Brake Controller, 3 gauge A-pillar mount with ISSPRO EGT, ISPPRO Boost and Autometer Voltmeter, Autometer Steering Column Autometer Tranny Gauge, Zoodad mod, Rancho 9000x Front and Rear, Walker BT muffler, now a Predator programmer running 85hp mode, Boost Relief Value and Tru Cool Max tranny cooler with more mods to come..
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-27-2019, 10:02 PM
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You have to look at the IPR % duty cycle command as well as the ICP pressure. Also good to watch is the ICP desired pressure. You also need to get the oil hot to get the best idea of the health of the high pressure oil system.

Mark
06 F250 CC SB FX4 Lariat;ARP studs;OEM gaskets;Banks exhaust;DynaTrac Ball joints;Coolant filter;High-Idle mod;RACCCV6000;JimmiJammers;Ravelco;SynchroMax xfer case;Fumoto valve;Harpooned;CPOhighwayProducts toolbox;tracrac;Fox Weatherboots;Wet Okole Seat Covers;BriteBox;Re-flashed;Quadzilla Recon XZT Fuel Press;Blue FPR spring;DashDAQ;PHP FICM;RiffRaff boots;DCPower270A XP;PowerInverter;Rancho7000's;BPD EGR cooler;One-piece HPOP fitting;D-plugs&standpipes;BPD Billet WaterPump;SCT w/ Matts SRL+;ELC Ultra;DuraTracs
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 12:45 PM Thread Starter
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I just got a chance to look at the Cold crank issue again while I am waiting for the IPR test fitting to arrive to check for a leak.



I did notice that the low oil pressure gauge on the dash is not going up as I am cranking (I said in a earlier post it was, but I was wrong). I am guessing if I am not building lower pressure to show on the gauge, it sounds like a oil leak, possibly while its sitting over night? The ICP pressure does show I am building pressure while I am cranking.

2004 F350 6.0L SD Crew Cab Lariat SB... 2 1/2" Zone front leveling kit with 4" blocks, 5100 Bilstein and Performance mfg coolant filter, Zoodad mod, and Blue spring Regulator.

2002 F-250 SD Crew Cab XLT, Short Bed, Auto, 3.73 Limited Slip, aFe Magnum Force Air Box, PCM code VDH2, Glasstite Raven Topper, Tekonsha Envoy Brake Controller, 3 gauge A-pillar mount with ISSPRO EGT, ISPPRO Boost and Autometer Voltmeter, Autometer Steering Column Autometer Tranny Gauge, Zoodad mod, Rancho 9000x Front and Rear, Walker BT muffler, now a Predator programmer running 85hp mode, Boost Relief Value and Tru Cool Max tranny cooler with more mods to come..
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 09:28 PM Thread Starter
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Well, the IPR tester showed up today and of course, I have a air leak. You can feel the air coming out the port on the driver side valve cover that connects to the intake. Now its a matter of is it the HPOP or the discharge tube at the top of the HPOP. Are there any other places it could be leaking (other o-rings or fittings) since this is a early 2004 build (not STC fittings) I should be checking?

2004 F350 6.0L SD Crew Cab Lariat SB... 2 1/2" Zone front leveling kit with 4" blocks, 5100 Bilstein and Performance mfg coolant filter, Zoodad mod, and Blue spring Regulator.

2002 F-250 SD Crew Cab XLT, Short Bed, Auto, 3.73 Limited Slip, aFe Magnum Force Air Box, PCM code VDH2, Glasstite Raven Topper, Tekonsha Envoy Brake Controller, 3 gauge A-pillar mount with ISSPRO EGT, ISPPRO Boost and Autometer Voltmeter, Autometer Steering Column Autometer Tranny Gauge, Zoodad mod, Rancho 9000x Front and Rear, Walker BT muffler, now a Predator programmer running 85hp mode, Boost Relief Value and Tru Cool Max tranny cooler with more mods to come..
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old Today, 09:00 AM
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Do yourself a favor and order the fitting right now to check lpop pressure from oil prssure sensor port. You could have an hpop ball bearing out among other high pressure leaks. But if it were me, Id leave it together for now so you can test base oil pressure first.

2002 F250 7.3 ext sb
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