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6.0L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain Discussion of the 6.0L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 2003-Up Super Duties and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 6.0L Power Stroke engine.

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post #31 of 56 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobofthenorth View Post
With the IPR open the air leak is internal to the HPOP so its harder to hear but you can still hear it. FWIW, Forscan won't let me use 100% as the IPR duty cycle - 99 is OK but 100 is no go. Auto Enginuity may be different.
good to know about ForScan - thanks

Mark
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post #32 of 56 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 01:35 PM Thread Starter
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Can you tell me if the following is accurate:

Once you energize the IPR > 85% closed
If you hear air within both of the valve covers, the leak is on of the following (STC fitting, Injector Seal, Dummy Plug, Stand Pipe)
If you hear air within the Oil Filter Reservoir, the leak is the HPOP

2005 F350 SRW 4x4
  • Sinister Diesel EGR Delete
  • SCT Tuner
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post #33 of 56 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 02:23 PM Thread Starter
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Hmmm, So I torqued the Ball Tube Retaining nuts down to 70ft/lb but I just saw a couple of other posts indicating they should be torqued to 100ft/lb.... I guess I'm going to take the rail out and tighten them up a bit more to see if that fixes the leak I'm hearing at Injector #3... I'll most likely replace the injector seal at that time as well to make sure I won't have to take it off again... well, lesson the chances I'll have to take it off again.

I'll update...

2005 F350 SRW 4x4
  • Sinister Diesel EGR Delete
  • SCT Tuner
  • ARP Studs
  • Sinister Diesel Coolant Filter Kit
  • Updated Oil Cooler
  • Garrett Powermax Turbo
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post #34 of 56 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 04:16 PM Thread Starter
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I took the rail out and torqued the Ball Tubes down to 100ft/lbs... it didn't really turn a lot to get from 70ft/lbs to 100ft/lbs maybe a 1/16th of an inch...


Regardless, in taking the oil rail out, I noticed the "new" stand pipe and dummy pipe seal rings had nicks in them. I just put them in, new, yesterday. Now I'm wondering if I should put another set of new ones in... I got these from Sinister Diesel when I purchased a few other items...

2005 F350 SRW 4x4
  • Sinister Diesel EGR Delete
  • SCT Tuner
  • ARP Studs
  • Sinister Diesel Coolant Filter Kit
  • Updated Oil Cooler
  • Garrett Powermax Turbo
  • BD Diesel Up-Pipes
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post #35 of 56 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 04:28 PM
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I have not been impressed w/ the quality of parts from Sinister - especially the soft goods like gaskets and o-rings. When they say OEM parts, IMO they are not always completely truthful .......

Mark
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post #36 of 56 (permalink) Old 04-13-2019, 02:44 PM Thread Starter
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@bismic, I am beginning to agree with you. I had two sets of Stand Pipes and Dummy plugs, so I put the 2nd set in. Same thing happened and a leak was heard around the stand pipe. I put the old one back in and it went in easily and removed the leak.

Having said that: I need some advice. After I replaced the stand pipe and dummy plug with the old set, I didn't hear any leaks around those. I also changed the top seal, on injector #3, and that leak is gone... but I now have a leak on injector #1. Is it really possible? Maybe it is a stupid question. Maybe I should have been more patient and changed the top seals on all the injectors. I guess there is another possibility... The air that I hear coming out of the injectors is a sign that the STC fitting is bad. There is a change in the air leak when I put the IPR closed. What do you think?


I guess I'm going to purchase a new set of Stand Pipes. I have seen a set of seals and washers for the stand pipes and dummy plugs. Has anyone had any experience with those? Is it advisable to use those or simply get a new set of pipes/plugs?


Thanks for all your advice thus far...

Believe it or not, the Motorcraft OEM parts are cheaper than the Sinister Diesel parts....

2005 F350 SRW 4x4
  • Sinister Diesel EGR Delete
  • SCT Tuner
  • ARP Studs
  • Sinister Diesel Coolant Filter Kit
  • Updated Oil Cooler
  • Garrett Powermax Turbo
  • BD Diesel Up-Pipes

Last edited by bgiebels; 04-13-2019 at 03:33 PM.
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post #37 of 56 (permalink) Old 04-14-2019, 02:55 PM Thread Starter
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I removed the remaining injectors and changed the orings and the seals. I replace them all, torqued to 26ft/lbs, put the rail back in, torqued to 10ft/lbs... and there is still a leak around the 2nd Injector on the passenger side (Injector #3). I looked a forum which indicated, after putting new seals on, you have to run the engine a while before the seals will seat correctly...

anyone hear of such a thing? I guess I could just put the everything back together, less the valve cover, and see if it will start...

Any other suggestions, thoughts?

2005 F350 SRW 4x4
  • Sinister Diesel EGR Delete
  • SCT Tuner
  • ARP Studs
  • Sinister Diesel Coolant Filter Kit
  • Updated Oil Cooler
  • Garrett Powermax Turbo
  • BD Diesel Up-Pipes
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post #38 of 56 (permalink) Old 04-14-2019, 03:14 PM
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I don't think that injector o-ring leakage is really connected to an STC fitting issue.

I have always installed new dummy plugs - never installed just the o-rings / d-rings.

You might get a leaking injector o-ring to "seat-in" after running it, but I wouldn't bet on it. It is true that it is harder to leak w/ oil than it is with air, but remember how much more oil pressure there is. It wouldn't hurt to try starting it w/ the valve cover off.

Mark
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post #39 of 56 (permalink) Old 04-14-2019, 05:03 PM Thread Starter
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I tend to agree with you.. (STC Fitting being the cause of the injectors leaking). It really can't as the injectors are fed directly from the rail and it wouldn't matter if the stc fitting was bad or not, it would leak... maybe less if the stc fitting was bad.

Having said that, where does the air come out if the STC fitting is bad? I can't "see" the leak but have pin-pointed it to "I believe" it is the injector (right now just the #3). If it were the stc fittings, would it be more of an air leak all over the valve area?

Regardless, I'll be putting the parts back on tomorrow (less the valve cover) to see if it will start now. I can't see why it would since it doesn't seem like I've done anything to lesson any leaking I had...

Can anyone confirm that air coming out of the oil filter reservoir would be an indication of a bad HPOP?

Thanks,

2005 F350 SRW 4x4
  • Sinister Diesel EGR Delete
  • SCT Tuner
  • ARP Studs
  • Sinister Diesel Coolant Filter Kit
  • Updated Oil Cooler
  • Garrett Powermax Turbo
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post #40 of 56 (permalink) Old 04-14-2019, 06:33 PM
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that is how to condemn an hpop. hopefully you don't have an hpop issue, they aren't too terribly common for 05 and up.

Mark
06 F250 CC SB FX4 Lariat;ARP studs;OEM gaskets;Banks exhaust;DynaTrac Ball joints;Coolant filter;High-Idle mod;RACCCV6000;JimmiJammers;Ravelco;SynchroMax xfer case;Fumoto valve;Harpooned;CPOhighwayProducts toolbox;tracrac;Fox Weatherboots;Wet Okole Seat Covers;BriteBox;Re-flashed;Quadzilla Recon XZT Fuel Press;Blue FPR spring;DashDAQ;PHP FICM;RiffRaff boots;DCPower270A XP;PowerInverter;Rancho7000's;BPD EGR cooler;One-piece HPOP fitting;D-plugs&standpipes;BPD Billet WaterPump;SCT w/ Matts SRL+;ELC Ultra;DuraTracs

Last edited by bismic; 04-15-2019 at 11:40 AM.
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post #41 of 56 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 09:25 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bismic View Post
that is how to condemn an hpop. hopefully you don't have an hpop issue, they aren't to terribly common for 05 and up.
Cool, I'm not getting any air, whatsoever, out of the oil filter reservoir.


Hopefully, I'll put this back together this evening, and it will start after I prime the High Pressure Oil system.


Thanks, again.

2005 F350 SRW 4x4
  • Sinister Diesel EGR Delete
  • SCT Tuner
  • ARP Studs
  • Sinister Diesel Coolant Filter Kit
  • Updated Oil Cooler
  • Garrett Powermax Turbo
  • BD Diesel Up-Pipes
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post #42 of 56 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 08:06 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobofthenorth View Post
Its not the rails themselves you are testing.
Agreed. I was incorrectly using rails instead of all the parts on the rails (i.e. Injector Cups, Dummy Plugs, Stand Pipe) or one of the permanent plugs that are in the rail.


Having said that... After I put the new ICP on, and put the Glow Plug Control unit back on, I turned the key to the on position, but didn't start the truck, and to my surprise the oil pressure gauge didn't budge. It had before, so I took the oil filter out to see if the reservoir would fill up if I cranked the engine, with the keys out. The oil filled no problem. Must be that the batteries were too low. I put the battery charger on, and took a break for about an hour. I went back out and hooked up my EA scanner. Battery voltage was good so I went ahead and cranked the engine. It took about 20 seconds but the truck started and ran pretty good for about 10 - 20 seconds... then stopped.

Unfortunately, I forgot to put the oil filter back in and I spilled the oil all over the place until the oil got so low the engine shut down...

I'm going to be cleaning up oil for a while but I believe whatever I've done so far has removed the leak and I should be able to button it all back up. Before I do, I'll replace the oil (of course) and start it again and take some readings with the EA and see if there needs to be any injectors replaced on the passenger side before I call it good.

Either way, some progress made.... along with a big mess!

Any suggestions on a decent engine cleaner I should use?

Thanks,

2005 F350 SRW 4x4
  • Sinister Diesel EGR Delete
  • SCT Tuner
  • ARP Studs
  • Sinister Diesel Coolant Filter Kit
  • Updated Oil Cooler
  • Garrett Powermax Turbo
  • BD Diesel Up-Pipes
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post #43 of 56 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 05:13 PM Thread Starter
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Small Update:

I cleaned up my oil mess from last night and replaced the oil that had spilled out. I primed the system and the truck started after 10-15 seconds. While I wasn't impressed with that, it was the first start (well kinda second start given the start last night that ended up putting oil all over the garage floor). I then let it sit as I retrieved my computer from the house (a few minutes), and came back. After sitting a few minutes, the truck took significantly longer, and a few tries, to get it to start. Once it was started, I performed some tests...

IPR (during Idle) = 40%
ICP climbed from nothing to 500 somewhat slowly then started and then maintained about 540ish while idling
ICP Voltage was about 1.7ish

Everything looked decent, while it was running. I also performed a Power Balance test and, while idling, everything looked nice and flat(ish). It looks like #3 was a little bit stronger and #5 a tad weaker than the rest.


I shut it off, after running a good 5 minutes. And let it sit for a few minutes. Went to start it again and it took another 20 seconds to start.

Something I noted:
- Before I had this problem, the Oil Gauge would indicate I had base oil pressure almost immediately (a few seconds). Well before the glow plug indicator extinguished. Now, the oil pressure gauge only rises, right before the engine starts. I've had the oil filter out and tested for Base Oil Pressure as well and it seemed to be okay but I don't have a real good feel for how long it should take to fill the reservoir.

I do have a question:
I've done the air test and have reported I hear air coming from, what seems to be, the #3 injector but I'm not an expert here. When the STC fitting is bad, I believe that is indicated by the air leak from within the valve covers. But Where under the Valve Covers? If it could be anywhere under the valve covers, then what I "think" I am hearing coming from Injector #3, could very well be the STC fitting issue.

I guess I may have found my answer
In the Ford Procedure TSB 08-18-6 it says "if is isolated to the back of the engine, proceed to replace the STC fitting. "If it is detected under the valve cover, proceed to Under Valve Cover Air Leak Test Procedure". In the "Under the Valve Cover..." procedure it says... Listen for air leaks around the fuel injectors, D-Rings and Fuel Rail Plugs at both high pressure oil rails. If leaks are found repair as necessary".

I guess that indicates, based on what I am hearing, that the problem is neither the HPOP nor the STC fitting but rather something under the valve cover (i.e. Dummy Plugs, Stand Pipe, and Injector Seals)…


Thank you,

2005 F350 SRW 4x4
  • Sinister Diesel EGR Delete
  • SCT Tuner
  • ARP Studs
  • Sinister Diesel Coolant Filter Kit
  • Updated Oil Cooler
  • Garrett Powermax Turbo
  • BD Diesel Up-Pipes

Last edited by bgiebels; 04-16-2019 at 06:22 PM.
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post #44 of 56 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 09:01 PM
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The idle pressure is on target but that pressure should be IPR of 23-24%. 40% shows it is leaking, poor pump performance or oil issues. Given your testing the leak is the likely cause. With the leak the 20 seconds cranking is to be expected when oil is warm or hot. Injector top seal or ball tube, the tube from rail that sticks into injector are possibilities in addition to rail items like dummy plugs, attenuator plugs, stand pipes seals, and the small plugs. Some of these you have already replaced or checked.

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post #45 of 56 (permalink) Old 04-17-2019, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgiebels View Post
Small Update:

I guess I may have found my answer
In the Ford Procedure TSB 08-18-6 it says "if is isolated to the back of the engine, proceed to replace the STC fitting. "If it is detected under the valve cover, proceed to Under Valve Cover Air Leak Test Procedure". In the "Under the Valve Cover..." procedure it says... Listen for air leaks around the fuel injectors, D-Rings and Fuel Rail Plugs at both high pressure oil rails. If leaks are found repair as necessary".

I guess that indicates, based on what I am hearing, that the problem is neither the HPOP nor the STC fitting but rather something under the valve cover (i.e. Dummy Plugs, Stand Pipe, and Injector Seals)…


Thank you,
Been trying to communicate that to you!

The typical time to fill the oil filter housing when cranking is:
10-13 seconds without the drain valve depressed
3-4 seconds with the drain valve depressed

Lastly - remember that when you have been doing air tests, it may run rough and the numbers may be "a little off" until you run the truck long enough (and hard enough) to push all of the air out.

Mark
06 F250 CC SB FX4 Lariat;ARP studs;OEM gaskets;Banks exhaust;DynaTrac Ball joints;Coolant filter;High-Idle mod;RACCCV6000;JimmiJammers;Ravelco;SynchroMax xfer case;Fumoto valve;Harpooned;CPOhighwayProducts toolbox;tracrac;Fox Weatherboots;Wet Okole Seat Covers;BriteBox;Re-flashed;Quadzilla Recon XZT Fuel Press;Blue FPR spring;DashDAQ;PHP FICM;RiffRaff boots;DCPower270A XP;PowerInverter;Rancho7000's;BPD EGR cooler;One-piece HPOP fitting;D-plugs&standpipes;BPD Billet WaterPump;SCT w/ Matts SRL+;ELC Ultra;DuraTracs
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