Running rough after driving through heavy rain - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
6.0L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain Discussion of the 6.0L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 2003-Up Super Duties and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 6.0L Power Stroke engine.

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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-31-2018, 11:27 PM Thread Starter
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Running rough after driving through heavy rain

My truck has been running great for the past few weeks (just finished up doing EGR Cooler, Oil Cooler, New Adrenaline HPOP and cleaned injectors (installed new #4 injector). Tonight I drove through a very heavy rainstorm and probably was going too fast through the standing water which caused several massive water spray events all around my truck to the point where I couldn't see. When I got home the truck was idling very rough but still had tons of power during steady acceleration.

Not sure if I have another stuck/seized spool valve on a different injector or if the heavy water spray into the engine compartment caused this problem.

Any idea how (and if) the water could have caused this rough idle and shudder between 1500 and 2000 rpms. These are the exact same symptoms I was dealing with a few weeks ago and the buzz test revealed a bad #4 injector.

Thanks.
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-01-2018, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
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Hooked it up to AE, looks like I'm getting a P0281(contribution issue with #7) and it failed the buzz test for #7.

I'm going to let it sit for a few days to dry off in case the rain water got into the injector harness connection and some how caused the issue with #7. Very remote chance that is the problem but I'd rather be positive.

Not sure why all of a sudden I'm experiencing problems with injectors? I know that fuel pressure problems cause injector issues but would it also cause one of them to fail a buzz test? I suppose I should measure my fuel pressure first.
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-01-2018, 12:06 PM
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Could actually be FICM related.

Might want to check the FICM connectors.

Mark
06 F250 CC SB FX4 Lariat;ARP studs;OEM gaskets;Banks exhaust;DynaTrac Ball joints;Coolant filter;High-Idle mod;RACCCV6000;JimmiJammers;Ravelco;SynchroMax xfer case;Fumoto valve;Harpooned;CPOhighwayProducts toolbox;tracrac;Fox Weatherboots;Wet Okole Seat Covers;BriteBox;Re-flashed;Quadzilla Recon XZT Fuel Press;Blue FPR spring;DashDAQ;PHP FICM;RiffRaff boots;DCPower270A XP;PowerInverter;Rancho7000's;BPD EGR cooler;One-piece HPOP fitting;D-plugs&standpipes;BPD Billet WaterPump;SCT w/ Matts SRL+;ELC Ultra;DuraTracs
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-01-2018, 04:47 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bismic View Post
Could actually be FICM related.

Might want to check the FICM connectors.
Thanks Bismic. I'll definitely check out my FICM connections. I am a bit disappointed in myself for not being more careful about fuel pressure values. Owning two 6.0's, you'd think I would have a way to cheking them. Also, I've never done the blue spring upgrade and probably need to put that at the top of my list.

That said, I just ordered a new fuel cap with a shrader valve attached and will report back with my findings on fuel pressure. It can't be an accident for me to experience 2 separate injector failures in 4 weeks without there being some common root cause.

Thanks again.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-07-2018, 10:21 AM Thread Starter
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I swapped out the FICM with a known good one and observe no difference. Still getting failed Buzz on #7 and it runs poorly at idle and low RPM'S. It must be the injector but before I install another new one I'm going to check the fuel pressure as my new fuel cap with test port arrived today.

I'll report back in a few days...
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-07-2018, 11:01 AM
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Sorry for the troubles. Sounds like you are on the right track.

Mark
06 F250 CC SB FX4 Lariat;ARP studs;OEM gaskets;Banks exhaust;DynaTrac Ball joints;Coolant filter;High-Idle mod;RACCCV6000;JimmiJammers;Ravelco;SynchroMax xfer case;Fumoto valve;Harpooned;CPOhighwayProducts toolbox;tracrac;Fox Weatherboots;Wet Okole Seat Covers;BriteBox;Re-flashed;Quadzilla Recon XZT Fuel Press;Blue FPR spring;DashDAQ;PHP FICM;RiffRaff boots;DCPower270A XP;PowerInverter;Rancho7000's;BPD EGR cooler;One-piece HPOP fitting;D-plugs&standpipes;BPD Billet WaterPump;SCT w/ Matts SRL+;ELC Ultra;DuraTracs
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-07-2018, 03:03 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bismic View Post
Sorry for the troubles. Sounds like you are on the right track.
Hey Bismic, do you have any advice regarding a good fuel pressure gauge? I've got the fuel cap with schrader valve but now need a gauge to be able to read the pressure. I've looked at them on Amazon and see an OTC 5630 but not sure if it will work for the 6.0 application.

I've seen tons of threads that discussed fuel pressure but nobody has ever documented exactly which FP Gauge that they were using. Also,I'm hoping to find one with enough hose to be able to drag the gauge up to the windshield so I can see the pressure at WOT.

Thanks.
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-07-2018, 06:55 PM
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They don;t sell the one I use anymore.

Here are some good choices (IMO anyway)

FUEL PRESSURE GAUGES
https://www.dynotunenitrous.com/stor...?idproduct=130
http://www.dynotunenitrous.com/store...STRUCTIONS.pdf

Auber Instruments EGT and fuel pressure gauge:
https://www.auberins.com/index.php?m...roducts_id=271
https://www.auberins.com/index.php?m...dex&cPath=5_21
EGT Probe, Exposed Tip [TC-KEGT] - $36.50 : auberins.com, Temperature control solutions for home and industry

ISSPRO Performax Gauges at DieselManor - Black Dial, Black Bezel, Red Pointers
ISSPRO R89141 Electric Fuel Pressure Sensor at DieselManor
ISSPRO R18044 EV2 Series Fuel Pressure Gauge at DieselManor
ISSPRO EV2 R33000 Fuel Pressure Gauges at DieselManor
Differences Between ISSPRO EV(1) and EV2 Gauges*

Auto Meter 6163 Cobalt Series Fuel Pressure Gauge at DieselManor
Auto Meter 2663 Z-Series Fuel Pressure Gauge at DieselManor
Auto Meter 880080 Ford Racing Fuel Pressure Gauge at DieselManor

https://puredieselpower.com/?subcats...roducts.search

Mark
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-07-2018, 07:31 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks. Good options.
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-07-2018, 07:34 PM Thread Starter
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What does poor fuel pressure actually do to the injector physically? The first one I had to replace had its spool valve frozen. When I finally got it out, the valve had two somewhat deep wear grooves on it. No chance at sanding it down.
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-07-2018, 09:07 PM
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Your question brings up memories of quite an argument about that on the PSN forum.

Ford's position:

Low or negative pressures may allow the injector intensifier plunger to over shoot and impact the lower assembly, leading to internal injector damage. (Ford's quote, not mine)

This explanation has been posted as a reason for the "low fuel pressure damage" many times.

Ford has data on it - or at least they say the do.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/ford-man...ech%20Tips.pdf

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...2374f26c22.jpg

Then you have the fact that Ford spent some money to come out with a stronger fuel pressure regulator spring - I am sure Ford had some data on saving money behind that decision.

Folks at Full Force Diesel (Casserly) have specifically stated to me that they do not like to see below 50 psig for their injectors.

Here is a quote by a very knowledgeable PSN member:

We ran numerous tests in 05-06 while looking for analysis data regarding injector failures. We placed three pressure sensors; one at the filter housing, and one at the back of each head. The results were alarming during loaded acceleration or hauling up grades. The passenger side head is starving the two back cylinders in most situations. (*we also placed EGT sensors at each cylinder to verify power output*) The OEM setup is marginal at best with new filters; this and other data is what FORCED FMC & IH to release the regulator spring changes. The pressure drop through the filter housing to the rear passenger fuel port is one reason FMC filed suit regarding warrantee claims.

....... and then he posted this:

Folks,
We tested pressure from the rear ports to confirm pressure differentials from front to back AND from left to right banks. The tests also proved fuel was flows from the drivers side to passenger side when a cross over line was installed. This alone clearly indicates an issue exist within the OEM fuel distribution system.
FMC raised the pressure spring rating for a reason. If anyone is interested in performing the same tests, install a refrigeration type sight glass in each test assemble, this will prove the question of entrained air in #2 diesel at sea level. The physical properties of diesel fuel naturally contain air, the system can be completely tight, the air is within the fuel.

I wont argue the physical aspects of injector operation, people will believe what they will.

Wekiwa
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Last edited by bismic; 09-07-2018 at 09:21 PM.
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-08-2018, 03:01 PM Thread Starter
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Wow. That is fantastic information. Thank you so much for sharing. I almost want to change the title of this thread because I think others could benefit from this information and they may never find it with the title I originally chose.
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-12-2018, 06:24 AM
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Good question. I don't have a answer.
Mine seems to drain back as well.

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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-12-2018, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by dillon134 View Post
How much fuel should be in the secondary filter housing when you remove the cap and filter? I know with the oil filter housing, once you take out the oil filter, the drain back valve is released and the oil drains back into the engine. The reason I ask is because the last time I removed the fuel filter a housing cap, the housing didn't have much fuel in it. Housing does fill with fuel with the KOEO so my pump must be working but why wouldn't the filter be soaking wet with fuel when I take it out. This was observed after my truck was parked for several days so it somehow drained somewhere???

Assume the fuel and oil filter housings work differently with drain back, etc. Can someone explain please? I can't find the answer on the internet anywhere.

Thanks.
That depends on model year. In 04 a "trap" was installed on the regulator piping that is meant to keep it full. This fuel line cannot be retrofitted to earlier MY's.

Also, I believe the duckbill fitting on the return line in the tank also helps keep it full. That said, my 06 quit staying full a few months ago. I have not done any troubleshooting on it because it really isn't much of an issue IMO. The air will be bled out (if any does get in) by waiting a little w/ KOEO before cranking.

Mark
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Last edited by bismic; 09-12-2018 at 06:53 AM.
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-12-2018, 09:08 AM
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^ Same. That's why I haven't investigated. Lol

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1994 F350 7.3 PSD 4X4 ZF5 DUALLY
PHP HYDRA, 6637, 3-4 DP TO STRAIGHT 4 BEHIND THE TIRE, 1.0 EXHAUST HOUSING, DIY D66 TURBO, FUGA E-FUEL, EBPV DELETE. Cooper discoverer AT/3'S.

2010 VW JETTA TDI DSG Kerma tune. Hankook ventus v2 concept 2.


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