Stuttering Under Load - Page 2 - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
6.0L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain Discussion of the 6.0L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 2003-Up Super Duties and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 6.0L Power Stroke engine.

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post #16 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-13-2019, 03:46 PM Thread Starter
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Update from today:

Drove up and down the highway and had strong jerking going on in high gear. Looked at the Reference Voltage and Both FICM Main and FICM Supply. The FICM Main power fluctuated over 5 V (48 to 48.5). Reference Voltage stuck at 5Volts with no fluctuations.

Got back into the garage and ran Power Balance test, KOER Performance Tests, and pulled DTCs.
I also ran the "Bubble Test" and saw no bubbles being blown back into the secondary fuel filter bowl.

See Attached Screen Captures for each.

Assume the EBP out of range is because I have a CAT Delete pipe on the truck. Any other thoughts on what it could be?

Thanks!
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2004 F-250 FX4 Lariat SWB SRW 6.0L Torqshift, Late Engine Build 11/21/04, Dual Alternators,
Extended Cab, Med Wedgewood Blue, Tan Leather Interior, Autopage RS Alarm, Blue Spring, Dieselsite Coolant filter, ARP Studs, Ford Reman Heads (added Exhaust Valve Seats), Updated HPOP, MBRP HD Y-Pipe, RCD EGR Delete, Updated Turbo Oil Tubes, Bullet Proof Water Pump, FICMRepair with Econo-tune (wish I'd gotten Atlas 40), Rifraff CACs, Mag HiTec Differential Cover,. Working out BP Perf CCV Kit Install..
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Last edited by TurboThrill; 10-13-2019 at 04:11 PM.
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post #17 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-13-2019, 04:56 PM
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If your 04 has the ICP behind the turbo, then it is an 03 motor and it doesn't use the EBP sensor.

If it is going in and out of sync with a consistent rpm signal, then it could be an issue w/ the cam shaft sensor.

Mark
06 F250 CC SB FX4 Lariat;ARP studs;OEM gaskets;Banks exhaust;DynaTrac Ball joints;Coolant filter;High-Idle mod;RACCCV6000;JimmiJammers;Ravelco;SynchroMax xfer case;Fumoto valve;Harpooned;CPOhighwayProducts toolbox;tracrac;Fox Weatherboots;Wet Okole Seat Covers;BriteBox;Re-flashed;Quadzilla Recon XZT Fuel Press;Blue FPR spring;DashDAQ;PHP FICM;RiffRaff boots;DCPower270A XP;PowerInverter;Rancho7000's;BPD EGR cooler;One-piece HPOP fitting;D-plugs&standpipes;BPD Billet WaterPump;SCT w/ Matts SRL+;ELC Ultra;DuraTracs
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post #18 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-13-2019, 08:51 PM Thread Starter
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Mark,

I just finished putting everything away and came in here to find your post.

My truck is a late 04 build with the ICP Sensor on the Rocker cover. So.... I guess it uses the EBP sensor, but I had believed in my head that it didn't for some reason. Sounds like others have had jerking due to Plugged/Compromised EBP signals... I'll clean it tomorrow and inspect the wires around it. I haven't messed with that sensor since I put HGs on many miles back! Wow! I hope, I hope, I hope......

The CMP/CKP sync rythmically pulses 1&0 sitting at idle (I tried to determine if this was normal by searching the forum and several seem to think so).

Thanks for your help!


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2004 F-250 FX4 Lariat SWB SRW 6.0L Torqshift, Late Engine Build 11/21/04, Dual Alternators,
Extended Cab, Med Wedgewood Blue, Tan Leather Interior, Autopage RS Alarm, Blue Spring, Dieselsite Coolant filter, ARP Studs, Ford Reman Heads (added Exhaust Valve Seats), Updated HPOP, MBRP HD Y-Pipe, RCD EGR Delete, Updated Turbo Oil Tubes, Bullet Proof Water Pump, FICMRepair with Econo-tune (wish I'd gotten Atlas 40), Rifraff CACs, Mag HiTec Differential Cover,. Working out BP Perf CCV Kit Install..
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post #19 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2019, 04:20 PM Thread Starter
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Angry EBP Sensor Cleaning Didn't Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by bismic View Post
If your 04 has the ICP behind the turbo, then it is an 03 motor and it doesn't use the EBP sensor.

If it is going in and out of sync with a consistent rpm signal, then it could be an issue w/ the cam shaft sensor.

Pulled everything out of the way to get to the EBP Sensor so that I could check wiring and clean it. Took it off and sprayed it with Electronic Parts Cleaner in the bottom of the sensor. Got the brake cleaner and a piece of weed wacker line and cleaned out the tube through to the manifold. Put all the CAC connectors back on and torqued them to 108in/lbs. Started it up and monitored EBP Absolute at idle and I can't remember what it was but it was either 11psi or 15psi. When I drove it watching the EBP it varied with engine speed and seemed to be working just fine. The truck still jerks when in high gear while trying to accelerate. Do you think I should go get a graph of RPM vs EBP? Edit - The EBP isn't out of range as I had earlier posted here, it's the EGR that is out of range (duh).


Then I pulled into the garage and set up the computer to track several CMP/CKP factors. Attached are the results of my diagnostics.


I would appreciate your thoughts on Next Steps....

Thanks!
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Still makes me grin "almost" every time I get near it!
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Last edited by TurboThrill; 10-15-2019 at 12:56 PM.
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post #20 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2019, 04:25 PM
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Looks like a camshaft sensor failure to me.

Edit - I forgot you have the later 04.

Yes, it would be good to see the graph of rpm vs EBP (and verify it at KOEO).
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Cam-Cmp diagnostics.pdf (39.4 KB, 10 views)

Mark
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Last edited by bismic; 10-14-2019 at 04:28 PM.
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post #21 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2019, 04:44 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Mark!

Here's the EBP Performance data.
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2004 F-250 FX4 Lariat SWB SRW 6.0L Torqshift, Late Engine Build 11/21/04, Dual Alternators,
Extended Cab, Med Wedgewood Blue, Tan Leather Interior, Autopage RS Alarm, Blue Spring, Dieselsite Coolant filter, ARP Studs, Ford Reman Heads (added Exhaust Valve Seats), Updated HPOP, MBRP HD Y-Pipe, RCD EGR Delete, Updated Turbo Oil Tubes, Bullet Proof Water Pump, FICMRepair with Econo-tune (wish I'd gotten Atlas 40), Rifraff CACs, Mag HiTec Differential Cover,. Working out BP Perf CCV Kit Install..
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Still makes me grin "almost" every time I get near it!
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post #22 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2019, 06:09 PM Thread Starter
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Help Please - Connectors and Pinouts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bismic View Post
Looks like a camshaft sensor failure to me.

Edit - I forgot you have the later 04.

Yes, it would be good to see the graph of rpm vs EBP (and verify it at KOEO).
Hi Mark,

Did some searching for the connectors and pinouts called out on the diagnostic procedure that you gave me for the Camshaft Position sensor. The pics attached are what I found. It seems the PCM Connector that I'm looking for is the center one and the FICM Connector that I'm looking for is the one nearest the front of the truck. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks!
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2004 F-250 FX4 Lariat SWB SRW 6.0L Torqshift, Late Engine Build 11/21/04, Dual Alternators,
Extended Cab, Med Wedgewood Blue, Tan Leather Interior, Autopage RS Alarm, Blue Spring, Dieselsite Coolant filter, ARP Studs, Ford Reman Heads (added Exhaust Valve Seats), Updated HPOP, MBRP HD Y-Pipe, RCD EGR Delete, Updated Turbo Oil Tubes, Bullet Proof Water Pump, FICMRepair with Econo-tune (wish I'd gotten Atlas 40), Rifraff CACs, Mag HiTec Differential Cover,. Working out BP Perf CCV Kit Install..
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Last edited by TurboThrill; 10-14-2019 at 06:52 PM. Reason: Connectors and pinouts
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post #23 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2019, 08:36 PM Thread Starter
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Progress on CMP Sensor Diagnostic

I got the PCM Connector pulled off (had to search for how to do this without breaking it) and found that you pull the top of the White Bale away from the fender and then pull the connector out of the PCM.

Then I had to rig some probe wires for my big ass multimeter probes so that I could probe the pins in the PCM Connector. I was able to probe through the harness and the Camshaft Position Sensor and got a reading of 927 ohms. (Within expected range).

Then I put everything back together and hooked up the Autoenginuity tool. I found a CMP Sensor Failure signal to have my wife watch on the data graph while I crawled under the truck and wiggled the wire at the CMP Sensor connector body. Nothing happened. So tomorrow I'll pull all the stuff off that I had off this morning so that I can get to the harness and do some enhanced wiggling while I watch that CMP Sensor Fault signal.

After that, I'll continue with the rest of the Camshaft Position Sensor Diagnosis...


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2004 F-250 FX4 Lariat SWB SRW 6.0L Torqshift, Late Engine Build 11/21/04, Dual Alternators,
Extended Cab, Med Wedgewood Blue, Tan Leather Interior, Autopage RS Alarm, Blue Spring, Dieselsite Coolant filter, ARP Studs, Ford Reman Heads (added Exhaust Valve Seats), Updated HPOP, MBRP HD Y-Pipe, RCD EGR Delete, Updated Turbo Oil Tubes, Bullet Proof Water Pump, FICMRepair with Econo-tune (wish I'd gotten Atlas 40), Rifraff CACs, Mag HiTec Differential Cover,. Working out BP Perf CCV Kit Install..
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Still makes me grin "almost" every time I get near it!
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post #24 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 02:28 PM Thread Starter
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I've followed the Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor Diagnostic flow up to removing the CMP Sensor. The following is what I found:

Since I have no DTCs I started at V4 Measure resistance through the CMP sensor (S/B Between 800 & 100 Ohms): 927 Ohms
V5: Wiggled the CMP Sensor cable with no opens detected between the PCM Connector and the CMP Sensor Connector (Even powered a headlight bulb through the circuit): PCM to CMP Sensor cable is sound
V7: Check for shorts to ground betwen PCM to CMP Sensor Connector. : Resistance was unreadable so open & Light bulb circuit burning bright proved no short.
V8: Check for opens in PCM to CMP Sensor Connector circuit: One wire measured .1 ohms and the other measured .2 ohms
V9: Check for Voltage on FICM Pin 10 with Key On: No voltage measured
V10: Measure for short to ground, between FICM Pin 10 and Ground: No Short (> 10K ohms)
V11: Check for Open in wire, Measure Resistance between FICM pin 10 and ECM Pin 20: Resistance < 1 Ohm

The CMP Sensor looks clean and the connector that connects to the CMP Sensor is clean with no oil. The engine block is not rusty....

Pulling the CMP Sensor next to look at it and going to the dealer for a new one.


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2004 F-250 FX4 Lariat SWB SRW 6.0L Torqshift, Late Engine Build 11/21/04, Dual Alternators,
Extended Cab, Med Wedgewood Blue, Tan Leather Interior, Autopage RS Alarm, Blue Spring, Dieselsite Coolant filter, ARP Studs, Ford Reman Heads (added Exhaust Valve Seats), Updated HPOP, MBRP HD Y-Pipe, RCD EGR Delete, Updated Turbo Oil Tubes, Bullet Proof Water Pump, FICMRepair with Econo-tune (wish I'd gotten Atlas 40), Rifraff CACs, Mag HiTec Differential Cover,. Working out BP Perf CCV Kit Install..
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Still makes me grin "almost" every time I get near it!
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post #25 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 02:41 PM
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Just a thought (I didn't re-read the thread, so forgive me if you have tried this) - have you disconnected the ICP and tried running the truck w/ it disconnected?

Mark
06 F250 CC SB FX4 Lariat;ARP studs;OEM gaskets;Banks exhaust;DynaTrac Ball joints;Coolant filter;High-Idle mod;RACCCV6000;JimmiJammers;Ravelco;SynchroMax xfer case;Fumoto valve;Harpooned;CPOhighwayProducts toolbox;tracrac;Fox Weatherboots;Wet Okole Seat Covers;BriteBox;Re-flashed;Quadzilla Recon XZT Fuel Press;Blue FPR spring;DashDAQ;PHP FICM;RiffRaff boots;DCPower270A XP;PowerInverter;Rancho7000's;BPD EGR cooler;One-piece HPOP fitting;D-plugs&standpipes;BPD Billet WaterPump;SCT w/ Matts SRL+;ELC Ultra;DuraTracs
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post #26 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 02:58 PM Thread Starter
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No Mark I haven't run it without the ICP disconnected. Should I try that before pulling and replacing the Camshaft Positon Sensor? Edit: Well, since I can't get one without ordering it, I guess I'll put it back together and try running with the ICP disconnected......

Thanks!


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2004 F-250 FX4 Lariat SWB SRW 6.0L Torqshift, Late Engine Build 11/21/04, Dual Alternators,
Extended Cab, Med Wedgewood Blue, Tan Leather Interior, Autopage RS Alarm, Blue Spring, Dieselsite Coolant filter, ARP Studs, Ford Reman Heads (added Exhaust Valve Seats), Updated HPOP, MBRP HD Y-Pipe, RCD EGR Delete, Updated Turbo Oil Tubes, Bullet Proof Water Pump, FICMRepair with Econo-tune (wish I'd gotten Atlas 40), Rifraff CACs, Mag HiTec Differential Cover,. Working out BP Perf CCV Kit Install..
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post #27 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 04:09 PM
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Sorry I didn't suggest it earlier. It really doesn't sound like the ICP is the issue, but odder things have happened on the 6.0L.

Monitor the v-reference voltage also.

Mark
06 F250 CC SB FX4 Lariat;ARP studs;OEM gaskets;Banks exhaust;DynaTrac Ball joints;Coolant filter;High-Idle mod;RACCCV6000;JimmiJammers;Ravelco;SynchroMax xfer case;Fumoto valve;Harpooned;CPOhighwayProducts toolbox;tracrac;Fox Weatherboots;Wet Okole Seat Covers;BriteBox;Re-flashed;Quadzilla Recon XZT Fuel Press;Blue FPR spring;DashDAQ;PHP FICM;RiffRaff boots;DCPower270A XP;PowerInverter;Rancho7000's;BPD EGR cooler;One-piece HPOP fitting;D-plugs&standpipes;BPD Billet WaterPump;SCT w/ Matts SRL+;ELC Ultra;DuraTracs
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post #28 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 05:25 PM Thread Starter
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Unhappy CMP Sensor Getting a Beating?

Pulled the CMP Sensor because I needed to be sure it wasn't a problem after spending so much time on the wiring.

The outermost O-Ring has a big nick in it but there didn't seem to be any oil getting out...
The most interesting part is the end of the sensor had the kind of metal shavings you find on a normally operating engine (very tiny) and it looks like the Camshaft Pin (or whatever it is) has been hitting it or at least grinding it down. It looks like it may have started grinding into something under the tip (notice black lines). See the pics attached.

Does the Camshaft Pin (or whatever it is) stay where it is or can it come out?
Do I have to pull the cam?

What are your recommendations for next steps?

Thanks!!
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2004 F-250 FX4 Lariat SWB SRW 6.0L Torqshift, Late Engine Build 11/21/04, Dual Alternators,
Extended Cab, Med Wedgewood Blue, Tan Leather Interior, Autopage RS Alarm, Blue Spring, Dieselsite Coolant filter, ARP Studs, Ford Reman Heads (added Exhaust Valve Seats), Updated HPOP, MBRP HD Y-Pipe, RCD EGR Delete, Updated Turbo Oil Tubes, Bullet Proof Water Pump, FICMRepair with Econo-tune (wish I'd gotten Atlas 40), Rifraff CACs, Mag HiTec Differential Cover,. Working out BP Perf CCV Kit Install..
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Still makes me grin "almost" every time I get near it!
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post #29 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 06:22 PM
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Can you tell if the sensor is an actual motorcraft sensor?

Maybe (and it is a LONG shot) the sensor was torqued down too tight on installation? Maybe installed at an angle?

Hopefully there isn't an issue with the cam shaft. I would think if there were, you would have other issues. I have no idea on the pin itself (ie what it would take for it to "move").

Torque spec for the sensor is 8 ft-lbs.

Mark
06 F250 CC SB FX4 Lariat;ARP studs;OEM gaskets;Banks exhaust;DynaTrac Ball joints;Coolant filter;High-Idle mod;RACCCV6000;JimmiJammers;Ravelco;SynchroMax xfer case;Fumoto valve;Harpooned;CPOhighwayProducts toolbox;tracrac;Fox Weatherboots;Wet Okole Seat Covers;BriteBox;Re-flashed;Quadzilla Recon XZT Fuel Press;Blue FPR spring;DashDAQ;PHP FICM;RiffRaff boots;DCPower270A XP;PowerInverter;Rancho7000's;BPD EGR cooler;One-piece HPOP fitting;D-plugs&standpipes;BPD Billet WaterPump;SCT w/ Matts SRL+;ELC Ultra;DuraTracs
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post #30 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-17-2019, 02:58 PM Thread Starter
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CMP Sensor Pics

Hey Mark,

I assume the part is a FORD Part, as I bought the truck new and to my knowledge nobody has changed it out. There are some numbers on it and I shot some pics of it, but it appears that I have no more space to upload pics on the forum. One of the numbers is 3J24 and the other one is 1835985C92.

I ordered a Motorcraft part from Rockauto that should be here hopefully sooner than they say, and I'll compare the length then. If the new part is longer than the old part, I'll probably put some kind of shim in there to make sure the camshaft doesn't contact it. I'm thinking gasket material or sheet metal, but not sure at this point.

I did a search on CKP/CMP Sync and found lots and lots of discussion about folks that had issues with the CMP sensor and even one that talked about a shim kit. I bet that can't be bought, but wonder if anyone on the Forum knows about where you might get such a thing.

Have a Great Day! I'm just waiting on parts.....


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2004 F-250 FX4 Lariat SWB SRW 6.0L Torqshift, Late Engine Build 11/21/04, Dual Alternators,
Extended Cab, Med Wedgewood Blue, Tan Leather Interior, Autopage RS Alarm, Blue Spring, Dieselsite Coolant filter, ARP Studs, Ford Reman Heads (added Exhaust Valve Seats), Updated HPOP, MBRP HD Y-Pipe, RCD EGR Delete, Updated Turbo Oil Tubes, Bullet Proof Water Pump, FICMRepair with Econo-tune (wish I'd gotten Atlas 40), Rifraff CACs, Mag HiTec Differential Cover,. Working out BP Perf CCV Kit Install..
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Still makes me grin "almost" every time I get near it!
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Last edited by TurboThrill; 10-17-2019 at 03:09 PM. Reason: Adding Pictures
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