Will not start cold but will start if plugged in and warm - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
6.0L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain Discussion of the 6.0L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 2003-Up Super Duties and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 6.0L Power Stroke engine.

 
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-11-2012, 06:50 PM Thread Starter
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Will not start cold but will start if plugged in and warm

I've see other post that I think are about the same problem I am having but here is my problem:

As some of you know, I just replaced the EGR Cooler and oil cooler as well as cleaned the turbo and replaced the glow plug harness on the driver's side.

The engine will not run when it is cold. Thursday night when I got it all put back together, it would not start as the batteries seemed to be weak after trying to crank and glow for a few times. I charged the batteries all night and plugged the truck in to warm the engine up. It was about 50 degrees outside. The next day, Friday around noon, the truck fired and ran fine the first time I tried to start it. It ran fine the rest of friday and Friday night when I parked it in the driveway if was working fine.

Saturday morning it would crank and fire but would not run. I did this about 5 times and it would not start. Not wanting to drain the batteriesany further I decided to warm the engine so I plugged the truck in while I carried the family to the movies. When I got home the plug I was plugged into was not working so no warmed up truck. Tried to start it and it did the same crank, fire and not stay running. I decided I would charge the batteries overnight just to make sure thbatteries were fully charged.

This morning, Sunday, I tried to start the truck with fully charged batteries on a cold engine. It did the same crank, fire, and not run. Knowing the batteries were fully charged, I decided to plug the heater in and try something. I let it warm up while I went to church and around 12:15, after about a 3.5 hour warmup, it cranked fired and ran on the first try just like it did on Friday.
I have driven the truck all this afternoon and evening with no starting problems whatsoever.

I did go by Autozone to see if any codes were there and this is what was found:

Code P0603, P0611, P0284, P2614, P0404

I have the printout for each of these codes and the probable cause on each. None of these codes seems to match what my problem may be. Autozone cleared the codes and said drive it and see if they come back. It did not say if the codes were stored from before I owrk on the truck or since the work was done on the truck. I did removed the batteries from the truck for about 4 weeks while I worked on the truck.

The problem seems to be a cold or hot issue. Won't run cold but will run when hot. That would seem to be some type of sensor to me.

Any Educated ideas or experience in this situation?

2004 F250 Crew Cab King Ranch Lariat FX4 Saddle Leather 6.0 L FUMOTO Valve
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Last edited by Iam4MSU; 11-11-2012 at 11:03 PM. Reason: P0284 not P0264 as originally posted
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-11-2012, 06:57 PM
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I'd focus on the P0611. That's an FICM code. When it's thrown, your FICM is bad. Look at getting it rebuilt. FICMRepair.com is a popular choice and has a good reputation.

The reason it starts hot is, when it's cold the circuits in the FICM "shrink" (copper, solder, etc...) and cause an open circuit at the bad component(s). When it warms up, things expand and continuity is restored.

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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-11-2012, 09:33 PM
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dieselmac is right. You could check your FICM output voltage to verify but sounds like a classic FICM failure.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-11-2012, 09:51 PM Thread Starter
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You're telling me that by plugging the engine block heater in will warm the FICM causing the non-lead fragile solder to warm up thus causing the solder to expand and create continuity in the FICM thus it runs? The atmospheric temperature was mid 60 degrees F. Would solder shrink to crack that much?

I've seen the repair suggestions for the FICM for the cracked solder condition and find it hard to believe this would be the problem. Prior to my doing the work the truck ran find with no starting or firing problems. I may have to look into the FICM voltage to see what it reads.

Anyone else want to chime in?

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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-11-2012, 10:13 PM
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Clearly a P0611 code is not generated by a sensor. So - regardless of its connection to what you see with the block heater, you have a FICM issue to address. Your code for injector #2 COULD be related to that. A single injector low code typically ends up being the injector though, a harness issue the next likely cause. It is rare that a FICM would cause a single injector low DTC.

That being said, the P0603 is interesting - your sig seems to indicate that you aren't tuned. Have you had a Ford re-flash lately?

The P2614 is a CamShaft sensor electrical issue. You might want to look the connector over pretty good. After that, there are some electrical tests you can do to check out the wiring.

The P0404 is an EGR flow code. Not generally an electrical issue.

Mark
06 F250 CC SB FX4 Lariat;ARP studs;OEM gaskets;Banks exhaust;DynaTrac Ball joints;Coolant filter;High-Idle mod;RACCCV6000;JimmiJammers;Ravelco;SynchroMax xfer case;Fumoto valve;Harpooned;CPOhighwayProducts toolbox;tracrac;Fox Weatherboots;Wet Okole Seat Covers;BriteBox;Re-flashed;Quadzilla Recon XZT Fuel Press;Blue FPR spring;DashDAQ;PHP FICM;RiffRaff boots;DCPower270A XP;PowerInverter;Rancho7000's;BPD EGR cooler;One-piece HPOP fitting;D-plugs&standpipes;BPD Billet WaterPump;SCT w/ Matts SRL+;ELC Ultra;DuraTracs

Last edited by bismic; 11-11-2012 at 10:24 PM.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-11-2012, 10:35 PM Thread Starter
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I am not running a tuner. I havent been reflashed since I bought the truck in 2009.

Where is the camshaft sensor?

I thought it was Cylinder #8 injector referenced on P0284 code??

The P0611 FICM code can also have a probable cause of power failure could it not? P0603 I believe could also be power interruption. I did have both batteries removed for 4 weeks.

I have cleared the codes and will see what codes resurface.

My batteries are reading about 13.2 volts right now so I am not thinking batteries.

I'm new at this so please pardon the additional questioning. Just trying to narrow down as closely as possible to a likely solution.

I am going to check all the sensors that I have messed with in the work I just performed to make sure I have good connections. I need a better meter to read the FICM voltage.

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Last edited by Iam4MSU; 11-11-2012 at 10:39 PM.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-11-2012, 10:55 PM
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The camshaft sensor is located on the front driver side of the block. However, I have seen that code set when there is extended cranking involved. The p0284 is injector 8 circuit, but in your original post, you referenced p0264, which as bismic said is the injector 2 circuit. I agree with the harness issue, especially since its only picking up a fault on that one injector. Are you reading 13.2 volts with truck running or not running? It seems high to me for them to be reading that with the truck off. And as said, the dreaded p0611 is set when the PCM sees a hardware fault In the ficm, which means it is failing.

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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-11-2012, 11:07 PM Thread Starter
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I have corrected my original post for the P0284 code. It may well be the FICM going down and Ed maybe going to get some new business. Will see what codes return tomorrow after I try again.

The batteries are on a trickle charge of 2.0 volts and the smart charger says the voltage of the battery checks out to be 13.2 V.

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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-12-2012, 03:37 AM
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I would ALWAYS load test the batteries after fixing a FICM failure (not just a voltage check) - batteries are the leading cause for the failure in the first place.

Good catch on the excessive cranks and the P2614 code dcovaleski - thanks.

Mark
06 F250 CC SB FX4 Lariat;ARP studs;OEM gaskets;Banks exhaust;DynaTrac Ball joints;Coolant filter;High-Idle mod;RACCCV6000;JimmiJammers;Ravelco;SynchroMax xfer case;Fumoto valve;Harpooned;CPOhighwayProducts toolbox;tracrac;Fox Weatherboots;Wet Okole Seat Covers;BriteBox;Re-flashed;Quadzilla Recon XZT Fuel Press;Blue FPR spring;DashDAQ;PHP FICM;RiffRaff boots;DCPower270A XP;PowerInverter;Rancho7000's;BPD EGR cooler;One-piece HPOP fitting;D-plugs&standpipes;BPD Billet WaterPump;SCT w/ Matts SRL+;ELC Ultra;DuraTracs

Last edited by bismic; 11-12-2012 at 03:42 AM.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-12-2012, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bismic View Post
Clearly a P0611 code is not generated by a sensor. So - regardless of its connection to what you see with the block heater, you have a FICM issue to address. Your code for injector #2 COULD be related to that. A single injector low code typically ends up being the injector though, a harness issue the next likely cause. It is rare that a FICM would cause a single injector low DTC.
Thinking out loud here.....But if he has an early '04, the FICM has individual low side driver circuits. If there was a fault in one of these, an individual injector code will be thrown.

Late '04 and up FICM's have a common or shared low side driver circuit (per bank) which, if a fault happens, would cause a code for all the injectors on that side.

Scott

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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-12-2012, 09:09 PM
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Another thing that I thought about too, is if you had your engine apart for the coolers, chances are that you unplugged some injectors to get the harness out if the way. If you did, double check the plug for that cylinder, and make sure that all 4 wires are clipped Into it. One pushed up on me for #8 and had a skip and circuit code, took me days to figure it out. Just a thought!!


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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-12-2012, 09:40 PM
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Another thing that I thought about too, is if you had your engine apart for the coolers, chances are that you unplugged some injectors to get the harness out if the way. If you did, double check the plug for that cylinder, and make sure that all 4 wires are clipped Into it. One pushed up on me for #8 and had a skip and circuit code, took me days to figure it out. Just a thought!!


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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-12-2012, 09:54 PM Thread Starter
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I cheked the voltage on the FICM and it was showing a little less than 50 on my analog multi-metter and arounf 29 during cranking. Its packaged to send to Ed in the morning.

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WORK IN PROGRESS - R&R EGR COOLER, OIL COOLER, THERMOSTAT, TURBO BOLTS, GASKETS, ORINGS, and adding a COOLANT FILTER WITH NEW COOLANT AND FLUSH
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