1999 , never seen DCA - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
'99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain Discussion of the '99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 1999-Up Super Duty trucks and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 7.3L Power Stroke engine.

 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-19-2017, 09:44 PM Thread Starter
rmr
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1999 , never seen DCA

I went and looked at a 99 F350 dually, been in one family since new , a little over 200K miles.
It has never had any kind of coolant additive.
Should I walk away?
Am I making too big a deal over this? Considering I always used it in my 6.9 and cavitation isn't really an issue with 6.9s
Thanks

1986 F250,Regular cab,XL,4X4,6.9, 4 speed,
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-19-2017, 10:36 PM
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Not as big of a issue in the powerstroke engines.
Definitely nothing like the 7.3 IDI. Lol
Wouldn't scare me.

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1994 F350 7.3 PSD 4X4 ZF5 DUALLY
PHP HYDRA, 6637, 3-4 DP TO STRAIGHT 4 BEHIND THE TIRE, 1.0 EXHAUST HOUSING, DIY D66 TURBO, FUGA E-FUEL, EBPV DELETE. Cooper discoverer AT/3'S.

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-20-2017, 08:42 AM
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How frequent were the coolant changes?


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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-20-2017, 02:50 PM
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How frequent were the coolant changes?
Given that they didn't know about SCA's, I'd guess never.

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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-20-2017, 04:09 PM
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Not as big of a issue in the powerstroke engines.
Definitely nothing like the 7.3 IDI. Lol
Wouldn't scare me.

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7.3 IDI cavitation is way overstated.

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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-20-2017, 08:39 PM
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you know this brings up a good question... I thought the newer 7.3's were stainless cups... after looking, they aren't... so whats the deal with newer 7.3's being able to use HD-ELC's when the older ones have to use regular coolant with DCA's?

I thought the whole deal was the pre 99 had brass / copper and the ELC's would corrode them... and the newer ones had stainless cups which weren't bothered by the ELC's.

where did I get hung up on this...

-'97 F250HD 4x4 7.3-
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-20-2017, 09:21 PM
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you know this brings up a good question... I thought the newer 7.3's were stainless cups... after looking, they aren't... so whats the deal with newer 7.3's being able to use HD-ELC's when the older ones have to use regular coolant with DCA's?

I thought the whole deal was the pre 99 had brass / copper and the ELC's would corrode them... and the newer ones had stainless cups which weren't bothered by the ELC's.

where did I get hung up on this...
Or was it the injector cup sealant that would get destroyed ?


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NOS Black CPS. Rebuilt Fuel bowl w/gold spring, 6.0 Cooler, Walker BTM, Stancor GPR, Michelin LTX M&S2.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 06:21 PM
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Or was it the injector cup sealant that would get destroyed ?

idk, I woulda bet money that it was stainless vs copper... but it's not apparently -shrug- I went back and did a dozen searches over various sites and no one had stainless from the factory and all replacements are copper / brass



no clue... I'm getting old, sue me lol

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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 06:40 PM
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between Gooch and Stewart on Ford-trucks.com...









It's just my opinion, but since Ford didn't make the engines, I go by what International recommends, since they made the engines for Ford.

International recommends an Organic Acid Technology (OAT) Heavy Duty Extended Life Coolant (ELC) for the L99 and up 7.3's, but Ford doesn't.

Ford recommends their "gold" (Zerex G-05 equivalent) Hybrid-Organic Acid Technology (H-OAT) coolant starting with the '02 model year 7.3's.

After much research, International discovered an OAT based coolant doesn't work well and has compatibility issues with the older injector cup material, sensors, front cover, seals, gaskets, o-rings, and other stuff, like certain head gaskets that have silicone sealing rings for the coolant flow holes. To be certain, the problems found with the older type of sealant used during injector cup installation, which doesn't mix well with an OAT ELC, is enough to stop someone in their tracks.

Coolants like ELC's (usually Red) and G-05 (usually Gold) will have these OAT's. Conventional coolants (usually Green) will not.

So, with these incompatibility issues, International revised the necessary components on all 2/2/99-up build engines (SN 940614-up), and began recommending and factory filling with HD ELC coolants mid-year 2000.

GM's Dexcool is an Organic Acid Technology (OAT) coolant, but not all OAT coolants are like what GM uses.

GM typically uses a forumulation which is specifically not recommended for your diesel engine. Dexcool type coolants were absolutely never intended to be used for diesel applications.

There are many modern Heavy Duty Extended Life Coolants specifically designed for diesels. Delo ELC, Rotella ELC, International's Fleetrite ELC, CAT ELC, Mobil 1 ELC, and a host of others.

Compared to conventional "green" coolants, ELC's will address diesel cavitatation protection and provide superior metal corrosion protection, provide better heat transfer, require no testing and maintenance, be free of harmful abrasive silicates, borates, and phosphates, and have an operating life up to 1 million miles (Delo ELC).

Ford's "Gold" (G-05) coolant is nothing like a Heavy Duty ELC coolant, and it will not meet the strict specs required of a HD ELC coolant, or provide the higher level of protection.

The "Gold" is simply a universal hybrid, one-size-fits-all coolant that Ford uses in its entire line up that, with the exception of the Powerstroke, are all gasoline engines. Ford simply uses the "Gold" in the 7.3L PSD out of convenience, simplicity, cost, and uniformity throughout it's product line and dealerships.

The "Gold" coolant contains conventional "green" coolant components, like silicates, which eventually form microscopic abrasives that eat water pump seals. The "Gold" provides a lower level of cavitation protection using traditional SCA's like nitrite, it has a shorter life, it's not as effective as an ELC at heat transfer, and in some applications, requires testing and SCA maintenance (just like the conventional "green" coolant) if you are an enthusiast about protecting your engine.

In fact, Ford recommends you add SCA's to the "Gold" in certain F-Series applications. Caterpillar and John Deere also recommend adding SCA if it is going to be used in their diesels.

Ford's H-OAT "Gold" coolant will not meet International's heavy duty diesel B-1 specification. A Heavy Duty ELC will.

The "Gold" will work, but it's not the best.

Stewart














so there you go


"After much research, International discovered an OAT based coolant doesn't work well and has compatibility issues with the older injector cup material, sensors, front cover, seals, gaskets, o-rings, and other stuff, like certain head gaskets that have silicone sealing rings for the coolant flow holes. To be certain, the problems found with the older type of sealant used during injector cup installation, which doesn't mix well with an OAT ELC, is enough to stop someone in their tracks."








it's not JUST cup sealant, although that's where it shows up first usually, probably with the extreme heat to catalyze things faster

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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 07:07 PM
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Narmalee ^^^^^

That is an excellent bit of research and thanks for posting it.


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NOS Black CPS. ScanGauge-II, AIC, Bilstein 5100, Stancor GPR, Marinco Mod, B&W Turnover Ball, Michelin Defender LTX


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2002 F-250 4x4 SC LB 7.3 PSD w/ZF-6. 177,000 miles.
NOS Black CPS. ScanGauge-II. Bilstein 5100. Stancor GPR. Walker BTM. Noco Mod. Michelin Defender LTX 285/75/16.

SOLD:
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 07:36 PM
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7.3 IDI cavitation is way overstated.
If you say so. Lol

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1994 F350 7.3 PSD 4X4 ZF5 DUALLY
PHP HYDRA, 6637, 3-4 DP TO STRAIGHT 4 BEHIND THE TIRE, 1.0 EXHAUST HOUSING, DIY D66 TURBO, FUGA E-FUEL, EBPV DELETE. Cooper discoverer AT/3'S.

2010 VW JETTA TDI DSG Kerma tune. Hankook ventus v2 concept 2.


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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 08:12 PM
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I've run Prestone Heavy Duty Coolant (red) in my 97 for the past 10 years or so with no problems. Just sayin.....I called Prestone before I first changed it from the green and they assured me it was compatible with my 97.

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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
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Or was it the injector cup sealant that would get destroyed ?
Quote:
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Narmalee ^^^^^

That is an excellent bit of research and thanks for posting it.
I just wish I knew why I got stainless cups stuck in my head lolol

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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-23-2017, 04:56 PM
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7.3 IDI cavitation is way overstated.
If you say so. Lol

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How many posts have there been where cavitation was the cause of failure? I have yet to hear of any.

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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-23-2017, 07:18 PM
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I've personally seen a few.
You don't just magically get a cracked cylinder wall.
And yes, I've seen plenty of post where the end result of engine damage was from cavitation.

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1994 F350 7.3 PSD 4X4 ZF5 DUALLY
PHP HYDRA, 6637, 3-4 DP TO STRAIGHT 4 BEHIND THE TIRE, 1.0 EXHAUST HOUSING, DIY D66 TURBO, FUGA E-FUEL, EBPV DELETE. Cooper discoverer AT/3'S.

2010 VW JETTA TDI DSG Kerma tune. Hankook ventus v2 concept 2.


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