99.5 7.3 surging - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
'99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain Discussion of the '99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 1999-Up Super Duty trucks and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 7.3L Power Stroke engine.

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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 01:30 PM Thread Starter
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99.5 7.3 surging

Son is at college many hours away in my 99 7.3
Truck has no aftermarket upgrades, full stock. It has original injectors. We have changed the CPS 3 times since it was new. It has about 285,000 miles.

Last week, he gets in and drives to church, about 10 minutes. As he gets close, truck dies suddenly. He was able to crank it and get into parking lot where it died again. He again cranks it and drives back to his dorm. We arrive a few days later to visit and I get in to see what is happening. I start the motor and see the "Service Engine soon" light stays on for about 3 minutes then goes out while still at idle in the parking lot. We get in and drive to O'reily where they try to read codes, but none are found. Also had them test batteries and alternator. Batteries are good, alternator voltage regulator has some fluctuation on start, but steadies out. While it is at idle, about 10 minutes after first starting it, engine suddenly dies as if a sudden loss of fuel or compression. Starts right back up, idles for a few minutes and dies again.

Aha, I finally think to myself, a CPS failure. WE get a new CPS and install it. Truck seems to idle smoother. We drive it for about an hour with no problems, park to eat lunch, then drive back. Seems like all is good, we head back home.

Son calls me a few days later and says he has another issue. Now, after starting and a few minutes after warming up, motor starts to surge and runs rough. He says it's surging when his foot is on the brake and when he has his foot on the gas trying to go. He sent me a video he took while pulling into the parking lot, not sure how to add it here. It sounds like some cackling and there is definite engine surge as if you were revving it up and letting off.

I'm thinking an electronics issue, but I'm looking for ideas.
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 02:54 PM
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I would look at icp plug to see if there is oil in it if so that sensor needs replaced and might need the connector as well You can start and drive it unplugged. Is the cps a parts store one or a ford one. 7.3 are sensitively the sensor you put in them. I would check fuel pressure as well you could have a weak fuel pump or clogged screens in the tank or a promenade off fuel pick up foot with can cause problems at 1/4 tank. A parts store scanner won’t read a ford diesel you need a higher end scanner to check codes.


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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 08:18 PM
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Another possibility is the IPR coil. If the tin nut securing it has fallen off into the valley, the coil can't operate the IPR correctly. Could also be that the coil is damaged and heat sensitive. They sometimes fail with an open circuit when warm, but work OK when cooled off.

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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 11:38 AM
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Almost what I experienced. And I too tossed 4 cps in before I figured out its not the cps at all, and I now have spare cps. It turned out to be the plug that attaches to the cps. It was worn and sloppy, could not tell by eye, until I saw the new one, and how tight it should be. Second the wires from the plug to the top of the motor, about 10 inches, gets brittle, and breaks inside. A new plug and pigtail is cheap and easy to splice in. Use the whole pigtail to ensure you get past the brittle part. What happens is it starts nice cold. Warms a bit and the wires expand and separate, plug too, and an intermittent signal appears, engine light flashes and it surges or dies depending on size of signal loss. Surge is a small loss, and surge is the engine recovering. Many as did I , put a new cps in. Messing with the plug temporarily moves the wires, causing it to appear repaired, and the plug being re installed on the new sensor is in a new position. Few miles down the road, vibration opens up the signal loss, plug moves around and again it fails. Some times takes days to happen. I did this for a long time, tried everything. Then said put a new plug and pigtail in, only thing left was a possible wiring issue, so worth the try. Upon seeing the new plug I realized how bad mine was. The little squares were the pins go in were open , the new plug, totally closed with resistance when pushing on. Big difference. Used the whole pigtail as mentioned to get by bad wire. FYI 10 inches gets it up on top of the motor, so splicing is a piece of cake, lots of room. Once installed, I ran all 4 of my suspected dead cps. All are mint. It was totally the plug and wire. I have never had it surge since, and have not died or had to change a cps. It was the issue. ( touch wood) lol

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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 11:40 AM
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Forgot to add, the engine light flash only happened when it got quite bad, like yours. Before that, it never tossed a code or nothing. Which is part of the reason it took so long to find.

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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 03:23 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000F250-7.3 View Post
I would look at icp plug to see if there is oil in it if so that sensor needs replaced and might need the connector as well You can start and drive it unplugged. Is the cps a parts store one or a ford one. 7.3 are sensitively the sensor you put in them. I would check fuel pressure as well you could have a weak fuel pump or clogged screens in the tank or a promenade off fuel pick up foot with can cause problems at 1/4 tank. A parts store scanner won’t read a ford diesel you need a higher end scanner to check codes.


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CPS was from O'Reilly

Fuel was 3/4 tank

I'm having son check for oil in ICP plug, He's in Lubbock Texas, I'm in Dallas are, about 6 hours away.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 09:55 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolute View Post
Almost what I experienced. And I too tossed 4 cps in before I figured out its not the cps at all, and I now have spare cps. It turned out to be the plug that attaches to the cps. It was worn and sloppy, could not tell by eye, until I saw the new one, and how tight it should be. Second the wires from the plug to the top of the motor, about 10 inches, gets brittle, and breaks inside. A new plug and pigtail is cheap and easy to splice in. Use the whole pigtail to ensure you get past the brittle part. What happens is it starts nice cold. Warms a bit and the wires expand and separate, plug too, and an intermittent signal appears, engine light flashes and it surges or dies depending on size of signal loss. Surge is a small loss, and surge is the engine recovering. Many as did I , put a new cps in. Messing with the plug temporarily moves the wires, causing it to appear repaired, and the plug being re installed on the new sensor is in a new position. Few miles down the road, vibration opens up the signal loss, plug moves around and again it fails. Some times takes days to happen. I did this for a long time, tried everything. Then said put a new plug and pigtail in, only thing left was a possible wiring issue, so worth the try. Upon seeing the new plug I realized how bad mine was. The little squares were the pins go in were open , the new plug, totally closed with resistance when pushing on. Big difference. Used the whole pigtail as mentioned to get by bad wire. FYI 10 inches gets it up on top of the motor, so splicing is a piece of cake, lots of room. Once installed, I ran all 4 of my suspected dead cps. All are mint. It was totally the plug and wire. I have never had it surge since, and have not died or had to change a cps. It was the issue. ( touch wood) lol

Ok, update. No oil in ICP Plug.

I've ordered a New purple/blue CPS and will also get a new pigtail as suggested.

It's just weird that after installing the CPS from O'Reilly it ran so well, and then had issues later.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 10:41 AM
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Revisit that comment after you try the pigtail, and you will answer your own question. And remember, if the pigtail solves your issue, the CPS you had is probably still good, might want to try it out so you can have a spare. I dug mine out of the garbage can in my shop. Good thing I hardly ever empty that thing, it had 3 in there, all good. lol

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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 01:11 PM Thread Starter
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Revisit that comment after you try the pigtail, and you will answer your own question. And remember, if the pigtail solves your issue, the CPS you had is probably still good, might want to try it out so you can have a spare. I dug mine out of the garbage can in my shop. Good thing I hardly ever empty that thing, it had 3 in there, all good. lol

Out of curiosity, how did you splice the wires? Crimp? Solder?

I'm looking at sending him some low-temp solder joint butt connectors.
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 01:49 PM
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I took my time and soldered. I used the whole pig tail to eliminate as much old wire as possible. When I solder I join the wires end to end, twisted together, soldered. The wire stays the same diameter that way. I use shrink wrap, which obviously goes on first before solder, then I liquid electrical tape the solder joint, slide the shrink wrap over while still wet, and shrink it still wet. It squeezes out the excess which I wipe up. You now have a solid, waterproof, join that's not fat and noticeable, and keeps the original shape of the wire. But I'm a bit picky.

That all said. I read an article that says soldering is your worst choice, and a true electricians last choice. Reasons, two different metals cause corrosion, and the article says soldering doesn't actually join as if welded. It doesn't actually stick to the wires and they can vibrate loose. And a crimped connection is better because the crimp squeezes the wires together, versus hand twisted together for soldering. Air planes are ban from soldering, you are not aloud to do it. Aircraft grade water proof connectors must be used there.

Personally I think this article is bunk! Although from an actual wiring manual. The corrosion makes sense, but ive never been able o pull two soldered wires apart, and never had one fail. Connectors I've had fail all the time. So I guess its all preference, and what makes you feel right.

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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 03:45 PM
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[QUOTE=Absolute;4659720]I

That all said. I read an article that says soldering is your worst choice, and a true electricians last choice. Reasons, two different metals cause corrosion, and the article says soldering doesn't actually join as if welded. It doesn't actually stick to the wires and they can vibrate loose. And a crimped connection is better because the crimp squeezes the wires together, versus hand twisted together for soldering.


I agree with you Absolute— Bunk!! I do a lot of brazing, silver soldering, lead soldering. Of course it isn’t welding (duh!) but a whole lot more secure than crimping, less chance of heat build up.........I’ve noticed this tendency and train of thought in a lot of articles, think maybe it’s because there are fewer people who know how to solder properly? 🤔

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It was suggested you check for oil in the pigtail of the ICP and none was found.

An ICP can fail and not leave oily residue in pigtail.

Has the engine been started with the ICP pigtail unplugged?

Also, has the suggestion of inspecting the IPR nut for looseness been done?

Lastly, O’Reillys scanner cannot read Ford codes but you will have codes stored because the SES light was illuminated and these codes can help identify the issue prior to throwing money after parts.


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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 06:28 PM
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[quote=Big Horn;4659724]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolute View Post
I

That all said. I read an article that says soldering is your worst choice, and a true electricians last choice. Reasons, two different metals cause corrosion, and the article says soldering doesn't actually join as if welded. It doesn't actually stick to the wires and they can vibrate loose. And a crimped connection is better because the crimp squeezes the wires together, versus hand twisted together for soldering.


I agree with you Absolute— Bunk!! I do a lot of brazing, silver soldering, lead soldering. Of course it isn’t welding (duh!) but a whole lot more secure than crimping, less chance of heat build up.........I’ve noticed this tendency and train of thought in a lot of articles, think maybe it’s because there are fewer people who know how to solder properly? 🤔

The article is probably by the crimp fitting guys. Lol. I do have a friend that wires 747 dashes. He confirms soldering is not permitted, and any splices they must be with the aviation fittings. He said that would only ever be done on a repair, everything else is plug and play, and they usually just replace the entire pigtail with the unit itself. He also said soldering is not aloud because it can damage other very sensitive components in that area. Never said anything about failure.

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It was suggested you check for oil in the pigtail of the ICP and none was found.

An ICP can fail and not leave oily residue in pigtail.

Has the engine been started with the ICP pigtail unplugged?

Also, has the suggestion of inspecting the IPR nut for looseness been done?

Lastly, O’Reillys scanner cannot read Ford codes but you will have codes stored because the SES light was illuminated and these codes can help identify the issue prior to throwing money after parts.
Yes I forgot to add that I had him check with the ICP unplugged.

What is happening is that it seems to start fine, until it warms up (with the exception of immediatly after we changed the CPS we drove for an hour with no issues at all). Each time it is cool, the engine starts and runs fine for a bit then starts missing/surging/running rough. During this time he unplugged the sensor and nothing changed.
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The more I think about this issue, I keep coming back to some type of electronic/electrical issue. The new CPS fixed it for a while, but it came back. I wonder if something is warming up and possibly relaxing enough to touch a ground. The other, and maybe easiest answer is that it was a CPS issue, and we got another trash CPS.
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