engine rebuild won't start - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
'99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain Discussion of the '99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 1999-Up Super Duty trucks and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 7.3L Power Stroke engine.

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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-18-2019, 06:16 AM Thread Starter
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engine rebuild won't start

'01 7.3 complete rebuild. New injectors. Was running previously.


Cranks fine, no start. Fuel in bowl. No white smoke. Using original HPOP, new IPR valve. Serviced the "non-serviceable plug"...very carefully.


Crank rpm 170
ICP 240
IPR duty cycle 64


HPOP reservoir is full. When looking into the reservoir after cranking, there will be a rhythmic (every 1-2 seconds) "bubble" of oil that comes to the surface. Reservoir remains full.


I will change the new IPR back to the old, but I don't imagine that is the problem.


What next?


Thanks,
Mark

'01 F350 DRW Stock
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Automatic trans
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-18-2019, 08:51 AM
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engine rebuild won't start

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkMCM View Post
'01 7.3 complete rebuild. New injectors. Was running previously.


Cranks fine, no start. Fuel in bowl. No white smoke. Using original HPOP, new IPR valve. Serviced the "non-serviceable plug"...very carefully.


Crank rpm 170
ICP 240
IPR duty cycle 64


HPOP reservoir is full. When looking into the reservoir after cranking, there will be a rhythmic (every 1-2 seconds) "bubble" of oil that comes to the surface. Reservoir remains full.


I will change the new IPR back to the old, but I don't imagine that is the problem.


What next?


Thanks,
Mark


You have a oil leak somewhere or you have air trapped in the HPOP system try unplugging the icp sensor and cranking it. It should take several long cranks to refill the HPOP system mine took 3 and then started. You might try taking the icp sensor out to see if air is trapped at the front of the oil rail. Try scanning for codes is the cam position sensor new. What prompted the engine rebuild? Do you know what the pressure the HPOP would hold at wot.


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Last edited by 2000F250-7.3; 03-18-2019 at 08:55 AM.
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 02:16 PM
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You were able to get your duty cycle, have you done a buzz test to make sure the injectors work? I had a bad valve cover gasket causing one side to randomly fire. I also pulled the oil plugs out of the head and prefilled the head with oil. Next question would be, are the injectors spitting oil back out to the head? Maybe RT will chime in here, he helped me with mine.

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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 03:16 PM
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What 2000F250-7.3 said.

You aren't building pressure in the HP oil system. You need a minimum of 500 psi to fire the injectors. Your IPR duty cycle is maxxed. It should be in the neighborhood of 35% or lower to start. There's a leak somewhere. Even if you have a bunch of air in the system, it should eventually compress it and build to 500 psi, but that's hard on the starter.

Filling the oil rails in the heads is a good idea. What I do after a change of injectors is to leave the glow plugs out and crank the engine with the starter. That takes a the load off the starter with no compression and you can hear/feel the starter load up when the pressure builds in the HP oil rails. After reinstalling the glow plugs, the engine usually fires with near-normal crank times. You still need to take it out and run the snot out of it for 30-40 minutes to purge all the air from the HP oil system.

How "very carefully" did you service the non-serviceable HPOP plug. If the ball is out of place, there's no way you'll build pressure. It may have to come back out to be rechecked if nothing else works. I helped out a guy who had crunched the ball and had a no-start because of it. Once he fixed that, it fired right up.

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Last edited by klhansen; 03-19-2019 at 03:19 PM.
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-20-2019, 06:13 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the responses.

2000F250-7.3

Low compression started the rebuild. Looks to me to have been run without air cleaner or a bad leak in a very dusty environment. Will not start with ICP disconnected. Have cranked it A LOT. Don't know what the pump would hold at WOT, but I remember seeing over 1700 with AE.

Hdaniels651

Did not do a buzz test. There is absolutely no attempt to fire and no fuel smell at the tailpipe.

klhansen and all

I filled the rails before installing the engine. Last night I cranked it and pulled the ICP sensor, rail about half full. I left the sensor cracked to vent the rail and cranked until oil seeped out. Tighten sensor and still nothing.
I have ordered the pieces to do a dead head test on the pump this weekend. The ball in the plug concerns me. I was CAREFUL, but sometimes things go bad even when they look good.

When I changed back to the old IPR, there was little to no oil that ran out. Is that a sign of anything?

I will report back after the pump test.

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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 06:55 PM
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Im with Klhansen, I think you lost the ball in there. Mine was still in there, but the pump had to come out to fish it out and put back in.

2002 F350 Super Duty, Crew Cab,Long box,4x4, 7.3 PSD, Complete rebuild .010 over by myself except balancing, 2000hp billet connecting rods, ARP main and head studs, ceramic coated pistons, Smith Bros Chrome Molly push rods, Comp Cams springs, shims and seals. Competion complete valve set and head grinding and vacuum tested, Adrenaline HPOP, DP Tuner Infinity DX programmer and full load of tunes modified for my new Stage 3 250 shot injectors, ceramic coated exhaust manifolds and up pipes and collector, BD Diesel triple clutch furnace brazed billet torque converter and BD pro engine brake and compressor set up, MBRP 4" stainless turbo back, Driven Diesel regulated fuel return system, AFE pro stage 2 cool air intake, riffraff billet Whicked Wheel 2 compressor wheel in a GTP38R turbo, riffraff blue cooler boot kit and coil clamps, International Double Ceramic Coated Bellowed Up Pipes
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-24-2019, 09:36 PM Thread Starter
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So, I dead head the pump. Hook up the ICP and crank...240psi. Aha, it's the little ball. I pull the HPOP, put it on the bench, pull the IPR and there is the ball...behind the plug, sitting in it's little hole. Now what?


Could there be something else in the pump that is limiting flow? Reservoir gasket?





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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-24-2019, 09:47 PM
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Wouldn't be the reservoir gasket.

It's possible that your HPOP has coincidentally died, but that's fairly rare. You said you'd changed out the IPR, but maybe it's not working. If you have the old one that you knew worked, you might try swapping that in.

First truck -- 1929 Model A Ford pickup, restored from ground up. Wish I still had it!
'99.5 F250 PSD Supercab LB 4x4, ZF-6 w/SB Con OFE, 3.73LS, Boost & pyro gauges, Swamps S175/146 injectors, DP 80 HP Econo PCM (classic version
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-26-2019, 07:08 AM Thread Starter
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So I guess I will put the pump back in and carry on. I agree that it would be a huge coincidence if the pump happened to give up right now.


Before taking the pump out, I put the old IPR back in...no start. I also disconnected the ICP...no start.


Since I used the ICP to test the pump, is there any chance that it is bad even though it would not start with it disconnected? What about the pigtail to the ICP or the IPR?


I was sure that it was the ball, now I'm really stumped.

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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-26-2019, 06:52 PM
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New Motor

Did you install the oil rail drain plugs inside the valve covers?
Did you install the ball valve and spring and seat which does fall out some times during builds? Remember putting and taking out that seat? Ball doesn't seal well without it.
Did you install the two oil plugs for the lifters? New I hope.

All silly , you should have got all that , but maybe, just checking.

What is your fuel pressure?

You duty cycle is VERY high. Usually attributed to an oil leak on the High Pressure side.

Do the injectors spit oil while your cranking ?


If the injectors spit, they are firing, just a solenoid click is not a fire. Its a dry fire. So if they spit, then I would look for a fuel issue. Check your fuel pressure. If good, pull the covers and look for the spit. I suspect they don't spit, and you may see were your leak is if the seals on the rail plugs are gone or loose. You know the real tiny little plugs with o rings?? Not the giant ones on the ends of the rails and heads.

2002 F350 Super Duty, Crew Cab,Long box,4x4, 7.3 PSD, Complete rebuild .010 over by myself except balancing, 2000hp billet connecting rods, ARP main and head studs, ceramic coated pistons, Smith Bros Chrome Molly push rods, Comp Cams springs, shims and seals. Competion complete valve set and head grinding and vacuum tested, Adrenaline HPOP, DP Tuner Infinity DX programmer and full load of tunes modified for my new Stage 3 250 shot injectors, ceramic coated exhaust manifolds and up pipes and collector, BD Diesel triple clutch furnace brazed billet torque converter and BD pro engine brake and compressor set up, MBRP 4" stainless turbo back, Driven Diesel regulated fuel return system, AFE pro stage 2 cool air intake, riffraff billet Whicked Wheel 2 compressor wheel in a GTP38R turbo, riffraff blue cooler boot kit and coil clamps, International Double Ceramic Coated Bellowed Up Pipes
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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-26-2019, 09:39 PM Thread Starter
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Absolute,

New o rings on oil rail drain plugs.

Have not checked the fuel pressure.

I wish I could get a mechanical gauge on the dead head pump test and not rely on the ICP, just to be sure.

School me on the ball valve and spring and seat, also the oil plug for the lifters. Machine shop did the short block build and the machine work on the heads.

I am having a hard time getting my mind past the high duty cycle and low ICP. I didn't want to take the valve covers back off, but maybe that is the next place to go.

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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-27-2019, 07:05 AM Thread Starter
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KOEO 10.4v at the IPR pigtail.


Bypass valve (I think) in the HPOP has no new oil present, only old oil. If that means anything.

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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 02:01 PM Thread Starter
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So, dead head the pump with a mechanical gauge. IPR is connected. Reservoir is full. Bolt and gear turn.

The little ball on the non-serviceable plug is behind the rod, in it's little hole.

100psi, maybe.

Pull the reservoir plug and I get overflow?

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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 03:31 PM
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IPR will have 12v if it making full pressure , maybe a voltage issue. Another member jumped 12 to the IPR to get max pressure for a test, and that worked. Hes still working on why hes not getting 12v.

If your fuel pressure is 100psi, then that's way too high, the ball and spring could be jammed up in the fuel bowl, and you may not be getting fuel past the bowl

The ball , seat and spring are a long shot, and now that I read your HPOP stays full, its irrelevant. It stops oil draining out of the HPOP when not running.

Still think you have a fuel issue. 100psi is way too much, should be around 60 - 65 max. The ball and spring in the filter bowl are the regulator to keep it at a constant 60-65psi.

Going under the passenger valve cover is not a big deal, and could tell you a lot. Expecially if those tiny plugs are leaking. It will not build pressure with a leak like that. And you can confirm your injectors are getting enough oil to spit. Id deal with the fuel pressure first, I bet the injectors have none.

2002 F350 Super Duty, Crew Cab,Long box,4x4, 7.3 PSD, Complete rebuild .010 over by myself except balancing, 2000hp billet connecting rods, ARP main and head studs, ceramic coated pistons, Smith Bros Chrome Molly push rods, Comp Cams springs, shims and seals. Competion complete valve set and head grinding and vacuum tested, Adrenaline HPOP, DP Tuner Infinity DX programmer and full load of tunes modified for my new Stage 3 250 shot injectors, ceramic coated exhaust manifolds and up pipes and collector, BD Diesel triple clutch furnace brazed billet torque converter and BD pro engine brake and compressor set up, MBRP 4" stainless turbo back, Driven Diesel regulated fuel return system, AFE pro stage 2 cool air intake, riffraff billet Whicked Wheel 2 compressor wheel in a GTP38R turbo, riffraff blue cooler boot kit and coil clamps, International Double Ceramic Coated Bellowed Up Pipes
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-01-2019, 07:00 AM Thread Starter
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Absolute,

Thanks for responding. Maybe my post was confusing, the HPOP is putting out the 100 psi.

This is with the pump dead headed, a mechanical gauge, IPR plugged in.

I was mistaken on the 10.7, the battery was low. I have charged the batteries and now I get 12.4 at the pigtail. I have also jumped the IPR to the battery (red to positive) and got no change in the pressure.

The truck was running when I disassembled it. I just think it would be a huge coincidence if the HPOP gave up on the rebuild.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think until I can get pressure from the HPOP nothing else matters.

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