Knocking - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
'99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain Discussion of the '99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 1999-Up Super Duty trucks and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 7.3L Power Stroke engine.

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post #1 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-30-2019, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
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Knocking

My 7.3 might be reaching the end at only 185,000 miles. I've owned it since it had around 140,000 miles. I don't think it was maintained well. Dirty oil, engine codes, ECT.
I've been battling with back pressure being high since I've owned the truck. And there's not a shop around that works on diesels during the weekend to properly diagnosis it. Other places work the same hours I do.
Ebps tube cleaned with new sensor, and ebpv opens and closes properly every time I check. At the air filter side I can rotate the turbo freely and the shaft isn't tumbling around it feels good. I'm at a loss on solving the back pressure. Would Oil in intercooler?, Or Exhaust blockage in muffler?

To the knocking, I'm bringing up back pressure cause I don't know what exhaust valve float sounds like. About 3000 miles ago(2 months) I had a sticking injector, if I poured in a double dose of injector cleaner/antigel the truck ran good. The original Sound was a rpm rythmic that went away at 2000 rpms and less, and returned at 2000+ rpm. No smoke, stalling. Buzz tested fine, felt slightly rougher

I read about hotshotsecret striction eliminator bought some And did a oil and filter, hpop oil too change, in 50 miles the noise was gone, smoother and ran normal. And stopped the fuel additive and continued to feel better as time went by.
About 10 miles ago the truck started making the same noise but now it making it at idle and on deceleration, as well as all rpms while the other injectors are stopped letting the engine slow up. which I don't remember happening at all. Truck shakes slightly no stalling. I used Fordscan. And I had the following codes: p0284(fantom code from grey cps or cylinder #8) p0476(back pressure), buzz test is good every time cold or warm. Oil has gotten dirty and changing it, no smoke, normal blowby, about a month ago I had a passenger fuel return line bust, from bracket rubbing, I tried by ear trying to pin point the knocking but passenger and driver fender areas are just all equally loud. At idle it's barely noticeable, gets louder and noticable during acceleration. Maybe worth noting the last 3000 miles has been cooler than 75 usually 40s-60's.
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post #2 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-30-2019, 09:19 PM Thread Starter
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Today I did a little research trying to figure out what's happening. I dug out a mechanic stethoscope a tried listening for the noise. Unfortunately, I added a hearty dose of injector cleaner this morning and have about 5 miles on it. And the noise is definitely quieter. Now I can't hear it at idle anymore. I had my wife giving it some throttle while I poked around. The noise seems tide to engine rpm not turbo rpm, almost like a exhaust leak. I listened to both valve covers in a total of 4 spots. The hpop, oil pan, transmission pan The noise didn't seem to be coming from those areas.
I could hear something in the turbo so it could be echoing in that area from the exhaust. Regardless the turbo wasn't very smooth sounding but maybe it's just the air turbulence in there, might be nothing but the bearings didn't sound as smooth as the alternator ect alternator or anything else. The turbo might not be the sound source cause the sound seems tide to exhaust rpm of just one cylinder. I'm going to give the turbo a quick inspection tomorrow again my understanding is the vane spindle shouldn't move in and out by more than a sheet of paper thickness according to a YouTube video on turbos in general. I give that a second look, and I have a fuel siphon, I'll try and see if I can get oil from the intercooler via siphon cause it's a huge pain to remove. And probably needs to be drained I heard of people saying they drained gallons out.
Maybe

As too why injector cleaner would make the noise go away at idle, yet still hear the noise while coasting foot of the pedal from 30 mph or higher while all the injectors are silent. Is something I'm still trying to understand. I'm wondering if exhaust back pressure is pushing a exhaust port open. When I get to it I'll try and pin point the source of the noise I can't say exactly where the noise is coming from but exhaust seems to be my strongest source for now.
Let me know guys if I'm missing anything. I'm just making guesses off the little I know, hopefully I'll have positive results from tomorrows efforts
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post #3 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 10:33 AM
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Too much backpressure can be caused by only one thing. Blocked exhaust. I assume when you say the EBPV is functioning normally means you opened it up an visually saw the butterfly open and close solidly, and the actuator holds in open position? If you did not see the butterfly then you have no idea if its working. It could be slammed shut, and the actuator moves and holds normally. Those butterflys are know to break off and jam closed, especially if you have the mod to use it as an engine brake. Its a pretty wimpy butterfly. A true exhaust brake has a new butterfly that's about a 1/4 inch thick by eye. Stock one is a piece of sheet metal, designed to restrict flow at idle when really cold, helping warm up. That said, what do your EGT's do when its got too much back pressure as you say?

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post #4 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 11:06 AM Thread Starter
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Tried draining the intercooler today by siphoning I'm fairly certain I don't have a issue there. After serval attempts the best I could get out was 6inches of oil sucked into the hose end. I think I probably have a puddle at the bottom maybe a gallon tops.

The bad news
My factory air fliter box hose didn't seat well and I think its been sucking unfilter air for a month, the bottom quarter rolled in and the clamp was snugged down some light dust on the turbo that I didn't recall before, turbo it's self seems ok spindle rotates with ease and seems to be ok. Due to the sound being intermittent as in was at idle, not at idle. I'm hoping a fresh oil change might bring it back. Which I'll probably do tomorrow. If that doesn't clear it up a oil sample test would probably be a waste with the extra striction eliminator additive floating around the metals and everything would read really high
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post #5 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by razrburn View Post
Tried draining the intercooler today by siphoning I'm fairly certain I don't have a issue there. After serval attempts the best I could get out was 6inches of oil sucked into the hose end. I think I probably have a puddle at the bottom maybe a gallon tops.

The bad news
My factory air fliter box hose didn't seat well and I think its been sucking unfilter air for a month, the bottom quarter rolled in and the clamp was snugged down some light dust on the turbo that I didn't recall before, turbo it's self seems ok spindle rotates with ease and seems to be ok. Due to the sound being intermittent as in was at idle, not at idle. I'm hoping a fresh oil change might bring it back. Which I'll probably do tomorrow. If that doesn't clear it up a oil sample test would probably be a waste with the extra striction eliminator additive floating around the metals and everything would read really high
Do you have an exhaust brake installed? If not and don't plan on installing one in the future, do an EBPV delete. You can do this in your spare time in a day or weekends time so you don't have to rely on mechanics time. While you're in there put a new wheel on and rebuild your turbo. Like ABSOLUTE said, could be the butterfly valve stuck closed. Get rid of it.

Call Blackstone labs and tell them about the stiction eliminator in the oil. If you know how much is in there, they should be able to take that into account when compiling your results.

Jared

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post #6 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-01-2019, 10:09 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry I missed absolutes post, on the ebpv I was looking at the arm moving to its full range and not directly at the butterfly. I wasn't aware of the issue of the butterfly breaking off. And no I don't have a aftermarket exhaust brake. I'll definitely rebuild the turbo if I get a stream of positive luck. Still have the noise, changed the oil today, tossed a mile on it to see how it went. Noise has quieted down some and kicks in even later during a acceleration but still there.
I decided not to do a oil sample. Hotshotsecret's striction eliminator really made a 7.3l stew from the block. Every worn part from when it left the dealer was in that sample. I'd probably get false leads on metal wear that was not happening in the last 3000 miles. The oil was crazy black after just 3,000 miles, I ran a gallon of fresh oil through for a extra rinse. And also changed the hpop oil again which was just as bad
I also cut the filter open and saw a small cluster of metal shavings totaling maybe a gram. Unsure if it was related to cutting the filter up, With a angle grinder. Maybe I'll do the next oil change in 2000 miles. And drop the striction eliminator from the next oil change. As for the butterfly I'll see what is involved for a visual inspection. Im not sure if rebuilding a turbo is worth it if the truck engine has possibly only months of life left. I might try and listen carefully to the butterfly area and try to listen for unusual airflow sounds. If it's functional I should be able to here a difference in sound as it actuate's with the stethoscope. If I rebuild the turbo I'd like to add a wicked wheel. I just wanted to be fairly confident it has more than a few months of life left before I spend the time and money on it
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post #7 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 05:24 AM
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Unless you do a complete oil change, the oil will be black seconds after you run it. A good portion of old oil is trapped in the head rails and the HPOP reservoir, and doesn't drain. So you have to suck it out and pull the drain plugs to do a full change. Which is of course ridiculous , and nobody does that unless they have some mental issue that requires them to do needless maintenance. lol . If you have removed the valve covers and visually inspected the valve springs, and they are fine. Then too much back pressure is from your exhaust some were. EBPV to tail pipe, something is blocking it. Only other way to build pressure is a broken and stuck exhaust valve, and that would be a definite dead cylinder. Knocking is a funny word, hard to determine what that is. A knock in my car happens when I shut it off and it keeps running from hot carbon build up. Your trucks running real bad if its doing that.

Stiction crap. Don't like it, messes up crap its not meant too. Like real main seal repair crap, it effects everything in the motor it touches. I think it was RT that posted a memo from Ford about and issue with injectors appearing to have stiction problems, but its actually a flaw in the injector. Repaired easily. I will try to find it , but maybe send RT a pm about it.

2002 F350 Super Duty, Crew Cab,Long box,4x4, 7.3 PSD, Complete rebuild .010 over by myself except balancing, 2000hp billet connecting rods, ARP main and head studs, ceramic coated pistons, Smith Bros Chrome Molly push rods, Comp Cams springs, shims and seals. Competion complete valve set and head grinding and vacuum tested, Adrenaline HPOP, DP Tuner Infinity DX programmer and full load of tunes modified for my new Stage 3 250 shot injectors, ceramic coated exhaust manifolds and up pipes and collector, BD Diesel triple clutch furnace brazed billet torque converter and BD pro engine brake and compressor set up, MBRP 4" stainless turbo back, Driven Diesel regulated fuel return system, AFE pro stage 2 cool air intake, riffraff billet Whicked Wheel 2 compressor wheel in a GTP38R turbo, riffraff blue cooler boot kit and coil clamps, International Double Ceramic Coated Bellowed Up Pipes
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post #8 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 06:42 PM Thread Starter
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I did a quick test and removed the vband clamp that holds the downpipe to the ebpv, but ebpv is still on I have the tire lower bars jambed in the opening between the two and I started and did a few revs, I didn't get any knocking, and there is definitely alot more power and I can 100% hear the stock turbo spooling honestly for probably the first time since I bought the truck years ago. Being that the knock isn't internal in the block I'm happy to get it what it needs. The ebpv butterfly seems to be open 80% I'm trying to get a break from the rain to get my laptop out, cause I have a USB camera scope that can get me a photo instead of feel. I tried jambing my phone in there but my fingers hit the stop button right as the opening gets into frame. How else is the downpipe supported on a 2001 how bad would it be for me to drive with the downpipe unclamped from the ebpv for a few days till I can get it to a exhaust shop and let them wrench on it?
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post #9 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 07:13 PM Thread Starter
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I was looking at it more and I don't think the exhaust blowing right near the firewall is worth the risk. I did pry the area wide enough to get a good look with my phone and the valve is actually opening 100% and closing as needed for a cold start. And it solid to the actuator shaft and isn't loose. the truck is a 2001 so I'm guessing after nearly 20 years a internal exhaust baffle must have gotten loose. With the exhaust attached I do have some flow so it's not entirely blocked. But for sure it's going to need a bit of wrenching.
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post #10 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 10:02 PM
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Sure you havnt got a dead rat in the tail pipe. lol. What about the muffler, good shape, plugged with rust. Since its disconnected at the down pipe, put a leaf blower in the tailpipe and see how the flow goes back toward the motor. Rule out the piping anyway. Good way to find leaks too.

2002 F350 Super Duty, Crew Cab,Long box,4x4, 7.3 PSD, Complete rebuild .010 over by myself except balancing, 2000hp billet connecting rods, ARP main and head studs, ceramic coated pistons, Smith Bros Chrome Molly push rods, Comp Cams springs, shims and seals. Competion complete valve set and head grinding and vacuum tested, Adrenaline HPOP, DP Tuner Infinity DX programmer and full load of tunes modified for my new Stage 3 250 shot injectors, ceramic coated exhaust manifolds and up pipes and collector, BD Diesel triple clutch furnace brazed billet torque converter and BD pro engine brake and compressor set up, MBRP 4" stainless turbo back, Driven Diesel regulated fuel return system, AFE pro stage 2 cool air intake, riffraff billet Whicked Wheel 2 compressor wheel in a GTP38R turbo, riffraff blue cooler boot kit and coil clamps, International Double Ceramic Coated Bellowed Up Pipes
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post #11 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 11:19 PM Thread Starter
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I saw rust on the down pipe, I didn't see a cat, just a muffler (automatic transmission). I'm not sure what happened never did pull the scope camera out. I reassembled it, so I could take it to work tomorrow. After 100 curse words I found out lifting the tail pipe end brings it close enough to get the v clamp back on. Now I'm exhaust shopping.
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post #12 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 02:57 AM
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You can find a good exhaust i online and change it your self in a day a lot cheaper than a shop. I went to a 4" exhaust last year and did it by myself in a few hours. It will help if you can find another pair of hands to help with the job.

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post #13 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 07:58 AM
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I like the MBRP kits. They fit real good, go together easy and are of real good quality. I don't agree with the online business. I got my whole MBRP system, turbo back in stainless with a gorgeous tip for 400 bucks at the local 4x4 shop. Online was same but had shipping, and exchange on the dollar, so it was too much. Get a resonator instead of muffler. THey flow better, and turn it backwords it majorly increases flow.

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post #14 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 09:08 AM
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. I think it was RT that posted a memo from Ford about an issue with injectors appearing to have stiction problems, but its actually a flaw in the injector. Repaired easily. I will try to find it, but maybe send RT a pm about it.
Maybe this is the one you were thinking about: PoppetValve.pdf

I don't remember any others. Still, you are absolutely right - 7.3 injectors have no stiction issues.

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post #15 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 07:05 AM Thread Starter
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I ended up ordering a mbrp 4" S6200P on Amazon I have prime so free two day shipping. 318$ is actually a good price. messing with the cobras v band clamp should be easy this time. My only concern is my hellwig sway bar on the rear axle.
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