Resurrect old topic...Diesel Fuel additives - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
'99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain Discussion of the '99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 1999-Up Super Duty trucks and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 7.3L Power Stroke engine.

 
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-25-2018, 07:08 AM Thread Starter
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Resurrect old topic...Diesel Fuel additives

It seems several years ago I was taken to task for for asking about diesel fuel additives...
I did NOT go back to search what was said then....
Because I kept on doing what I've been doing for the last 13 yrs [?], since they
went to Ultra Low Sulfur diesel fuel....
That's all I can remember is that one of the respondents pulled some information
from some research done in ""SOUTH AFRICA" to prove that putting
Walmart's 2 cycle oil [TC-W3] in your fuel tank is detrimental to the engine...
Well, here is some research PROVING that it is beneficial,
Maybe NOT the best...BUT still good...
http://www.jatonkam35s.com/DeuceTech...itive_test.pdf

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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-25-2018, 08:35 AM
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You resurrected an old study as well. A quick search shows that study was first shared on the forum in May of 2007


Quote:
Originally Posted by reyjay View Post
[ QUOTE ]
I`m surprised that nobody tried to evaluate the real lubricating effect of all those additive when mixed with the fuel. I think that we will only get answers by lab tests. We could even check with 2 stroke oil added or with atf fluid. That would be interesting to get real numbers. Just a thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

Someone beat you to it, Look at Lubricity/Additive Study Porposal that Spicer is putting together over on the Diesel Place:
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/sho...42#post1755942

Lab is picked out, not sure of the list that they are going to test but he has signed up several additive makers to sponsor the cost of testing their own product, others being tested using contribution money. Uniform fuel, products bought OTS, blind independent lab using HFRR standard test. Check out that thread or the sticky thread for details.
I've probably linked to it a half dozen times myself.

Still, it's a good read and the reason most all of us use 2 stroke oil.

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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-25-2018, 09:11 AM
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When I fill up I add 10% ULS diesel fuel to my tank. I've found it improves my fuel mileage about 10%.

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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-25-2018, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by 444-4D View Post
When I fill up I add 10% ULS diesel fuel to my tank. I've found it improves my fuel mileage about 10%.
The only problem with that is being in a area where you can find ULS diesel fuel, dyed or not.

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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-25-2018, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 444-4D View Post
When I fill up I add 10% ULS diesel fuel to my tank. I've found it improves my fuel mileage about 10%.
The only problem with that is being in a area where you can find ULS diesel fuel, dyed or not.
OK, you guys have me going for my stronger reading glasses.

ULS Diesel is the same thing as ULSD.

It is the only diesel commercially available anywhere in the US. I don’t know of any refiners (distillers) that have not switched over to producing only ULSD except a small production unit here in Prudhoe Bay.

Dyed vs Undyed is the same base fuel. One has red dye added to designate it has not been taxed for on-highway use.

What am I missing?


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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-25-2018, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcticDriver View Post
What am I missing?

Only that 444-4D has the dryest wit east of the Pecos River. He's saying if you add 10% more fuel to your fuel tank, you'll see a 10% increase in your fuel is where he's going with that. He's a riot. Translated into English, he's saying you're wasting your time adding additives.

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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-25-2018, 10:22 AM
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He’s not the only one confused—- I read the report that wm 2 cycle oil was detrimental as well and then this one showing an improvement- #7 on the list. Obviously one of the reports are skewed. Is there more research / testing currently being done. How reliable is the Lab / Spicer Report?

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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-25-2018, 11:55 AM
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Could you link the one showing it was detrimental? Can’t imagine how it could be. The Spicer study looks at one factor only- scar formation on the test ball. In that respect, it appears to be 100% accurate.


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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-25-2018, 02:10 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, So I dug back and found the old posting saying TC-W3 2 cycle oil isn't good..
Mind you...this study is out of South Africa.
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Why do you guys use "2 stroke" oil for injector lubrication?

Why not 4 stroke oil, or transmission oil, or mineral oil, or canola oil, or Oil of Olay?

What specifically is it about 2 stroke oil that appeals to you for your homemade fuel lubricity "additive"?

Obviously I'm being facetious about the other oil alternatives I mentioned above, but in all seriousness, if injector life is the principle concern, and if you do not trust the lubricity of pump diesel... why not use a lubricity additive formulated for the purpose?

All the forum posts in the world about what people put in their tanks, and how long their injectors lasted as a result... amounts to dubious anecdotal speculation. Outside of a laboratory controlled comparative environment, using some semblance of scientific method, it is not possible to determine what benefit, or detriment, that adding 2 cycle oil to the fuel does to increase or curtail injector life.

An energy company in South Africa decided to put 2 cycle oil laced fuel to a test in a laboratory environment, just to try and apply some measurable data and science to all the anecdotal feel good claims that people make. The link to this report is below, but here is a summary of a few key points:

The results of the study support a view that the practice of dosing diesel with 2-stroke oil is surprisingly ineffective in terms of lubricity and cetane improvements.
Engine performance, fuel consumption and emissions were unchanged.
Trace amounts of zinc, an element which is found in most 2-stroke oils, are well known to cause injector nozzle fouling.
The study measured high levels of injector fouling when the test engine was running on diesel dosed with 2-stroke oil.
The use of 2-stroke oil in diesel is potentially harmful to modern diesel injection equipment.
Based on the results of the study, the following conclusions are drawn:

At a 200:1 volumetric blending ratio, 2-stroke oil has a negligible effect on diesel lubricity.
At a 200:1 volumetric blending ratio, 2-stroke oil has a negligible effect on diesel cetane number.
No measurable effect on all other regulated diesel properties was measured at a 200:1 dose of 2-stroke oil in diesel.
2-stroke oil can contain around 16ppm zinc, or higher depending on the formulation and batch.
Trace amounts of zinc in diesel are known to rapidly accelerate injector nozzle deposits.
Engine test results show that a 200:1 blend of 2-stroke oil in diesel results in a 2% loss of engine power in a 16 hour test due to injector fouling, a risk that would apply to any common rail diesel engine, but could also worsen fouling in older engines.
Vehicles fitted with a diesel particulate filter (DPF) in the exhaust system could experience reduced DPF life due to the collection of ash and metal based contaminants in the filter over time with the continued use of 2-stroke oil.
And here is the link to the full study:
http://www.fuelexpert.co.za/2-stroke...ical-study.php

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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-25-2018, 02:27 PM
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If you look at figure 2 in that study, there is a significant improvement in lubricity in European grade diesel when 2 stroke oil is added. That is not reflected in the South African diesel. That leads me to believe that there are different additives in different fuels. For all we know, the South African fuel is already dosed with something similar to 2 stroke oil when they buy it so adding a bit more doesn't help, whereas the European fuel is dosed with a different type additive so the 2 stroke oil acts synergistically. As to the fouling, while anecdotal evidence with an n of 1 is not reliable, there are thousands and thousands of us using 2 stroke oil in American diesel and I have yet to see or hear of one person reporting injector tip fouling as a result.

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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-25-2018, 03:41 PM
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I didn't read the study from South Africa but when I was over there in 2015 they were still running high sulfur diesel and had no idea what ULS diesel was when I talked to those running diesel trucks.

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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-25-2018, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcticDriver View Post
What am I missing?

Only that 444-4D has the dryest wit east of the Pecos River. He's saying if you add 10% more fuel to your fuel tank, you'll see a 10% increase in your fuel is where he's going with that. He's a riot. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forums/images/TheDieselStop_2015/smilies/tango_face_wink.png[/IMG] Translated into English, he's saying you're wasting your time adding additives.
I am chuckling non stop.
It went right by me.
In my defense, I had just finished a 12-hour night shift.

That was some good humor.


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Last edited by ArcticDriver; 08-25-2018 at 06:36 PM.
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-25-2018, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugman View Post
I didn't read the study from South Africa but when I was over there in 2015 they were still running high sulfur diesel and had no idea what ULS diesel was when I talked to those running diesel trucks.
Absolutely, ULSD has not reached many 3rd World countries, There has been more than one diesel owner that found that out the hard way going down to Baja in the past but I think PEMEX has finally mage good on their promise to supply Baja with ULSD...just about 6 years longer than what they promised.

Mañana....


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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-25-2018, 08:37 PM
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If I'm paying, it's optilube, HSS, or full torque.


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