ZF6 hard shifting when running between 1& reverse - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
'99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain Discussion of the '99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 1999-Up Super Duty trucks and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 7.3L Power Stroke engine.

 
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-15-2018, 04:17 PM Thread Starter
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ZF6 hard shifting when running between 1& reverse

Hellow everyone, just joined the group.
I hope everyone is haveing a great day.
So I have a '99 F350 crew cab 4x4 w/7.3. I have just switched from auto to the 6 speed I think it came out of an '04.
So when not running it shifts fantastic but running ( at first it shifted fine ) a few mo later it is nearly impossible to shift to reverse or 1st gear.
I could sure use a little help here. There is no grinding I simply will not move into gear. Although when it does go in, other than being a total pain to move into gear, no grinding or other problem.
Unless it's sincros on lost. Help please !
I tryed to post in ZF6 topic but can't 😞
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-15-2018, 05:21 PM
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Problems going into first or reverse is typically a clutch issue. If the clutch disc is hanging up on the input shaft splines, it could be keeping it moving with the engine, and would cause the symptoms you describe.

FYI, your tranny couldn't have come out of an '04 unless someone changed the front case, as they're different between the 7.3L (up to mid '03) and the 6.0L (mid '03 and later).

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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-15-2018, 09:34 PM
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I would agree with Kevin. Check fluid level, but sounds like a clutch issue to me.
DENNY

1999 F350 AUTO 4x4 CC LB DRW 4.10
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-15-2018, 10:51 PM Thread Starter
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So ya I'm wrong on the year.
So if the couch is hanging up would it not effect all the gears ??
I checked the fluid, my first thought. It's full.
Here's a thought on that. I have a 30,000gvw trans cooler in it. What if the fluid has ran back into the case by the time I check it giving me a false reading. There is no backflow valve I know of.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-15-2018, 10:54 PM Thread Starter
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So if it's the couch sticking, can't imagine how. Where to start ? re leading the slave and master.
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-15-2018, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Reynolds View Post
So ya I'm wrong on the year.
So if the couch is hanging up would it not effect all the gears ??
I checked the fluid, my first thought. It's full.
Here's a thought on that. I have a 30,000gvw trans cooler in it. What if the fluid has ran back into the case by the time I check it giving me a false reading. There is no backflow valve I know of.
The pump is a positive displacement type, so acts like a backflow valve, even though there isn't one in the system. Unless your tranny cooler is mounted way higher than the return line (top one at the tranny) it shouldn't affect the fluid level.

All the gears can be affected, but first and reverse are affected more. Can't say why right now, but can you shift into every gear at a stop with the clutch pedal depressed?


Quote:
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So if it's the couch sticking, can't imagine how. Where to start ? re leading the slave and master.
Have you checked the fluid level in the clutch master reservoir? It's possible the slave is leaking a bit and not releasing the clutch fully.

First truck -- 1929 Model A Ford pickup, restored from ground up. Wish I still had it!
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-16-2018, 03:03 PM
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Before you do anything else, do the simple free easy check of bleeding the system. The slave comes out of trans like a tail light socket, 1/8 turn CCW and it is out. Hold the slave pushrod down and push the pushrod in until it stops slowly and release slowly. Do that three times. Now push it back into hold in trans, start with pushrod horizontal since it will droop, you can feel it find the depression in release lever. It will take the same effort to push it back in as it did to push it to bleed. Seat it and turn the 1/8 turn CW and then check it. If it is fine and then gets back to dragging you have a slave or master cylinder leak or maybe a clutch issue. Not all leaks lose fluid, some let air in and level gets higher.

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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-16-2018, 11:24 PM
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All of the above suggestions are great.

I was having engagement issues with mine recently, taking alot more pedal stroke (like almost to the floor) to get the clutch to release. Granted, I'm running a double-disc, so it does require a bit more throw than a standard clutch, but it has been getting worse and worse.

What I found (on disassembly) was the little plastic bushing (between master cyl push rod and pedal arm) was badly worn. This was causing/allowing the pedal to move a good inch or more BEFORE the push rod started moving. The whole assembly is 10+ years old, so it was time for replacement.

I ordered a new master/slave assembly from Southbend Clutch. It's essentially a factory Ford "pre-filled & bled" assembly: master, slave, reservoir and line, all filled with fluid, ready to install. It also came with the new bushing for the pedal-pushrod connection. The other advantage to the Southbend unit is: they replace the cheap plastic tubing between the master & slave (that comes standard on the OEM and aftermarket units) with a PTFE S/S braided hose. The reason being, there's no expansion of the PTFE hose, which can cause an increase in pedal travel, particularly in higher-pressure applications. With the D-D clutch, I need all the help I can get!

In any case, the replacement of the master & slave cured my issue. I highly recommend replacing both, as an assembly, because trying to bleed these systems is a PIA (if not downright impossible)! That's why Ford did away with the individual components and just went to the pre-filled & bled assemblies.

https://www.southbendclutch.com/clut...X-F67.3-11251/






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Last edited by Calico5; 10-16-2018 at 11:46 PM.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-16-2018, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calico5 View Post
What I found (on disassembly) was the little plastic bushing (between master cyl push rod and pedal arm) was badly worn. This was causing/allowing the pedal to move a good inch or more BEFORE the push rod started moving. The whole assembly is 10+ years old, so it was time for replacement.
Good point, I've had trouble with that little POS bushing as well. The stud on the pedal looked like a football in cross section, so had to weld it up and re-work it. Didn't have any issues with the clutch, till the pushrod came loose.

First truck -- 1929 Model A Ford pickup, restored from ground up. Wish I still had it!
'99.5 F250 PSD Supercab LB 4x4, ZF-6 w/SB Con OFE, 3.73LS, Boost & pyro gauges, Swamps S175/146 injectors, DP 80 HP Econo PCM (classic version
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-16-2018, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klhansen View Post
Good point, I've had trouble with that little POS bushing as well. The stud on the pedal looked like a football in cross section, so had to weld it up and re-work it. Didn't have any issues with the clutch, till the pushrod came loose.
Yeah, I've seen one in a friend's truck that was badly worn that way. Kind of a cheap design, to use a plastic bushing instead of something more heavy-duty. I guess that keeps 'em selling parts though! LOL


The trick is to catch it BEFORE it wears the pin...



~Al

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AFE Intake; Garrett 38R; DieselSite Turbine Jacket
HPS Hi-Temp CAC Boots; Banks Big IC, Banks Engine Brake
External Oil cooler & Remote filter; Stealth 4-line Twin HPOP, Melling LPOP
Swamp's: 160cc/30% Injectors & HVHF IDM; DP-Tuner F5; Fluidamper Balancer
Custom Full Reg.-return Fuel System, Pre-& Post-pump filtration
Mishimoto Radiator & Exp. Tank; T444 Water Pump w/Filtration
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-19-2018, 11:52 AM Thread Starter
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So here's an updat to all the great suggestions.
Yes I have checked the fluid about half full added another quarter (3/4 full) put cap on and a tiny bit overflowed.
When I put the 6 speed in I used a new master cyl. Old slave Cyl. (Was auto)
Yes I agree to bless the hydroliccluch sys. Agian. And check the "pos bushing &#x1f923
It's a new $1400 dule cluch, psi plate & flywheel.
We're sitting at 550hp and 1000ft lbs tq.
I have been playing around with it. Making sure I'm pushing the cluch in all the way, pumping the cluch, trying another gear the the one I want, shifting at a slow roll yada yada not much help.
Shifts awsome when not running.
I'll blead the system this weekend.
So does anyone have a back up plug for the ZF6 🙄 Or know where I can get one ??
Great site I'm getting great feedback !!
THANK YOU !!!
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-19-2018, 12:07 PM Thread Starter
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Ok so I figured how to creat this post and I'm not sure how I did it. Why do I find this site soo hard to figure out.
Sure would be nice if there was a spot that actually tells you how to do things.
Can anyone give me some simple steps to creat a new post ??
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-19-2018, 05:58 PM
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Can anyone give me some simple steps to creat a new post ??

OK - Here you go.
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First truck -- 1929 Model A Ford pickup, restored from ground up. Wish I still had it!
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-26-2018, 04:23 PM
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Been a member here since 99 and the amount of talent here, excluding me, is just amazing. Maybe that's why I keep coming back, the only downfall is the amount of money I've spent with mods and stuff.
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