Banks housing and compressor wheel? - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
'99 & up Upgrades and Aftermarket - 7.3L Engine Upgrading or adding OEM or aftermarket equipment to your 1999-Up Super Duty or Excursion with 7.3L Power Stroke diesel engine. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 7.3L Power Stroke engine.

 
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-28-2005, 08:04 AM Thread Starter
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Banks housing and compressor wheel?

Will the Banks housing and compressor wheel do the same as the Wicked Wheel and ATS housing? How do they compare to each other?

2002 F-250 Lariat 4x4 crew-cab short-bed automatic, lots of stuff from DI Performance (Diesel Innovations)713/984-9441, Terminator hpop, ATS trans, and some good help from Chris Pitre at Pitre Automotive of Lafayette, LA 337/945-8049 (and a few other great sponsors) pm me for any details; Best time on 37's = 13.09 @ 102mph, #2 only;12.18 @ 111.71mph on Da Juice


Current Project: '86 Toyota regular cab, full tube chassis, fully built 7.3 Diesel Innovations Powerstroke engine and Terminator hpos
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-28-2005, 10:22 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Banks housing and compressor wheel?

ttt once [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

2002 F-250 Lariat 4x4 crew-cab short-bed automatic, lots of stuff from DI Performance (Diesel Innovations)713/984-9441, Terminator hpop, ATS trans, and some good help from Chris Pitre at Pitre Automotive of Lafayette, LA 337/945-8049 (and a few other great sponsors) pm me for any details; Best time on 37's = 13.09 @ 102mph, #2 only;12.18 @ 111.71mph on Da Juice


Current Project: '86 Toyota regular cab, full tube chassis, fully built 7.3 Diesel Innovations Powerstroke engine and Terminator hpos
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-28-2005, 10:47 AM
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Re: Banks housing and compressor wheel?

I believe that the banks housing is an exhaust housing and the ATS is a compressor housing. As far as the wheels, they are pretty much the same and will do the same things for you.
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chase

2002 F250
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-28-2005, 12:35 PM
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Re: Banks housing and compressor wheel?

[ QUOTE ]
Will the Banks housing and compressor wheel do the same as the Wicked Wheel and ATS housing? How do they compare to each other?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you asking if the benefits are the same...elimination of stall/surge?

That's what I'm wondering. I know the differences, do people run the ATS housing on a turbo with the Banks Exhaust housing. Any benefits?

Remember, this is the internet, where everyone's a diesel mechanic and has 500+hp/1000+lb/ft under the hood! Read up, form your own opinions, then do your own real-world testing!


'01 PSD F-250 XLT SC LB 2WD 6SPD 3.73LS, Alliant AC's,ARP Studs, Stealth Dual HPOPs, GTP38R, Forged Rods balanced, Fluidampr, South Bend CON OFE, 6.0L Intercooler, Volant Intake, 4" SS MBRP Exhaust, A-Pillar mounted Lunar Series Boost/Pyro Gauges,4 pos. Chip with Stealth burns from Twildman, playing with Minotaur Tuning software too, heated Racor 900FH 2 micron, Hutch mods, harpoon mod, DIY Regulated Return, 203 T-stat, coolant filter, AIH gone, CCV Mod, boost pressure relief valve, 100 gallon tank/toolbox combo...AutoEnginuity diagnostics for all Domestics
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-28-2005, 01:36 PM
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Re: Banks housing and compressor wheel?

if im not mistaken, i do not think surge can be "eliminated" but can be drastically reduced. The ATS compressor housing and wicked/banks wheel will help with that, while the banks exhaust housing will lower EGTs because it is 1.0AR versus stock .84AR.
regards,
chase

2002 F250
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-28-2005, 01:41 PM
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Re: Banks housing and compressor wheel?

[ QUOTE ]
it is 1.0AR versus stock .84AR.

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't this help with drive pressure ratio and overspooling possibility?

Antonio
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-28-2005, 04:19 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Banks housing and compressor wheel?

Thanx for the input people! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

2002 F-250 Lariat 4x4 crew-cab short-bed automatic, lots of stuff from DI Performance (Diesel Innovations)713/984-9441, Terminator hpop, ATS trans, and some good help from Chris Pitre at Pitre Automotive of Lafayette, LA 337/945-8049 (and a few other great sponsors) pm me for any details; Best time on 37's = 13.09 @ 102mph, #2 only;12.18 @ 111.71mph on Da Juice


Current Project: '86 Toyota regular cab, full tube chassis, fully built 7.3 Diesel Innovations Powerstroke engine and Terminator hpos
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-28-2005, 06:58 PM
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Re: Banks housing and compressor wheel?

The wheels are the same, but the housings are different. The Banks housing is a larger exhaust housing and allows for better exhaust flow and lower EGTs for towing. The ATS housing is part of the intake side of the turbo.

2001 F-250 Crew, long box, 4x4, Big Hoss level-5 Chip, Turbo Air Guide (TAG-II), Ford AIS air intake with foam sleeve, Monster exhaust, Aeroturbine, exhaust Guide, 6.0L intercooler, Di-Pricol Optix gauges, IHC CPS, Premo Oil Refiner, Banks Exhaust brake, SmartLock, Banks Quick Turbo, Six-Gun.

2000 Excursion PSD limited, Banks Big Hoss level-5 Chip, Turbo Air Guide (TAG-II), Banks Transcommand, UNI 2-stage foam air filter, 4" aluminized exhaust with 4" down pipe and 2 Aeroturbines.

97 F-250 Powerstoke 4x4 Banks Power Pack etc.

2006 VW Jetta, PD TDI, not modified yet[/i]
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-28-2005, 09:49 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Banks housing and compressor wheel?

So the Bank's housing wouldn't really do anything to help with turbo surge?

2002 F-250 Lariat 4x4 crew-cab short-bed automatic, lots of stuff from DI Performance (Diesel Innovations)713/984-9441, Terminator hpop, ATS trans, and some good help from Chris Pitre at Pitre Automotive of Lafayette, LA 337/945-8049 (and a few other great sponsors) pm me for any details; Best time on 37's = 13.09 @ 102mph, #2 only;12.18 @ 111.71mph on Da Juice


Current Project: '86 Toyota regular cab, full tube chassis, fully built 7.3 Diesel Innovations Powerstroke engine and Terminator hpos
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-01-2005, 11:27 AM
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Re: Banks housing and compressor wheel?

[ QUOTE ]
So the Bank's housing wouldn't really do anything to help with turbo surge?

[/ QUOTE ]The compressor wheel will take care of turbo surge in most applications. The Banks exhaust housing is larger than the stock and will help to keep EGTs down when towing heavy loads is a chipped truck.

2001 F-250 Crew, long box, 4x4, Big Hoss level-5 Chip, Turbo Air Guide (TAG-II), Ford AIS air intake with foam sleeve, Monster exhaust, Aeroturbine, exhaust Guide, 6.0L intercooler, Di-Pricol Optix gauges, IHC CPS, Premo Oil Refiner, Banks Exhaust brake, SmartLock, Banks Quick Turbo, Six-Gun.

2000 Excursion PSD limited, Banks Big Hoss level-5 Chip, Turbo Air Guide (TAG-II), Banks Transcommand, UNI 2-stage foam air filter, 4" aluminized exhaust with 4" down pipe and 2 Aeroturbines.

97 F-250 Powerstoke 4x4 Banks Power Pack etc.

2006 VW Jetta, PD TDI, not modified yet[/i]
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-01-2005, 12:19 PM
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Re: Banks housing and compressor wheel?

[ QUOTE ]
The Banks exhaust housing is larger than the stock and will help to keep EGTs down when towing heavy loads is a chipped truck.

[/ QUOTE ]

The larger A/R won't help with the "whooosh" sound I get during upshifts? I thought my little housing was part of the cause? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Remember, this is the internet, where everyone's a diesel mechanic and has 500+hp/1000+lb/ft under the hood! Read up, form your own opinions, then do your own real-world testing!


'01 PSD F-250 XLT SC LB 2WD 6SPD 3.73LS, Alliant AC's,ARP Studs, Stealth Dual HPOPs, GTP38R, Forged Rods balanced, Fluidampr, South Bend CON OFE, 6.0L Intercooler, Volant Intake, 4" SS MBRP Exhaust, A-Pillar mounted Lunar Series Boost/Pyro Gauges,4 pos. Chip with Stealth burns from Twildman, playing with Minotaur Tuning software too, heated Racor 900FH 2 micron, Hutch mods, harpoon mod, DIY Regulated Return, 203 T-stat, coolant filter, AIH gone, CCV Mod, boost pressure relief valve, 100 gallon tank/toolbox combo...AutoEnginuity diagnostics for all Domestics
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-01-2005, 02:43 PM
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Re: Banks housing and compressor wheel?

[ QUOTE ]
The larger A/R won't help with the "whooosh" sound I get during upshifts? I thought my little housing was part of the cause?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

The Banks exhaust housing alone did not directly address compressor surge/stall issues. If anything, the combination of the larger exhaust housing and the Banks original Ottomind chip programming made the chirping of the turbo more evident, when under load... experienced often in my case at shift points while powering up hills.

Banks Engineering addressed this issue by subsequently including a new compressor wheel with their PowerPack systems, beginning in 2001. In my case, it was only after Banks put in the new compressor wheel did the surge (chirping/whooshing) go away. Prior to that, with only the Banks 1.0 A/R ratio exhaust housing, I had to monitor the throttle when I heard those sounds coming on.

The new Banks compressor wheel, which is said to be the same as the Ford factory 99 turbo wheel made prior to the 99.5 update, and is likely very near the same alternating blade cut as Riley's branded "Wicked Wheel", seemed to me to reduce boost response in my truck. I lived with this, as it seemed better than the known consequences of inducing surge/stall.

To be fair to Gale Banks, Gale personally assured me that his testing did not bear out any significant loss in boost performance... i.e. the type of loss that I seem to have noticed. In fact, his firm belief is that on balance, MORE POWER can be obtained with the new compressor wheel, because the surge curve is moved as a result. We tested my truck on his dyno, but could not adequately test the truck with the original compressor wheel because the truck would hit the surge/stall wall at a certain point, and naturally his dyno technician didn't want to destroy the turbo.

Having physically compared both wheels in hand and on the truck, I've noticed that the modified wheel allows more pressure relief, with every other blade curled short of extending all the way to the clearance distance tolerance of the housing, and as such, may be a little less efficient at compressing the air in the stock compressor housing. But that relief is welcome, when compared to the stress of driving uphill in fear of destroying the turbo if you need to get on it to pass a slower moving semi.

The newer ported housing from Garrett (and rebranded by ATS) might be a more elegantly designed solution, albeit more costly than just replacing the wheel. I have no information on how robust the newer compressor housings are.

As for the exhaust housing, larger doesn't necessarily mean more power. The velocity of the exhaust gasses racing through the scrolled housing are generally increased with the smaller housings. But of course, so then is the heat. Comparing 7.3L stock and Banks housings to larger displacement 6 cylinder diesels, such as the 466, the 530, the C8.3, the M11, etc, makes the latter seem downright tiny compared to the former.

The best solution (in my opinion) is a total engineered solution, tested, verified, and mapped (with a compressor map) to a specification for the displacement volume and boost expected. I'm not sure how the home hybridized solutions that are piece-mealed together from different aftermarket vendors have worked in the long run... because the motors of the people who try them end up getting windowed out of commission for some other reason.

Good luck getting your surging sorted. The wheel, not the exhaust housing, sorted mine. But had the exhaust housing not been changed, and had the programming not been changed, the surge would not likely have come on as soon as it had. Fortunately, Gale Banks addressed the issue in my case, as well as in all other cases subsequent to 2000 with the improved post-2000 PowerPack, with his fairly comprehensively tested housing/wheel combination.

However, it is quite likely that the original International compressor map was not flawed for the power levels originally intended, making a change in wheel unnecessary for a bone stock, non-reprogramed application.

2000 F-550 CC 4x4 7.3L 4R100 MSOF CNH4; Racor CCV3550-FRD-02, AIS, AIC, and NO deletes.
Banks Intercooler & Pipes, 3.5 down & out, Big Head, Quick Turbo & Wheel, and NO chips/programs.
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