Can a 7.3L with a 4R100 auto benefit from an exhaust brake? - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
'99 & up Upgrades and Aftermarket - 7.3L Engine Upgrading or adding OEM or aftermarket equipment to your 1999-Up Super Duty or Excursion with 7.3L Power Stroke diesel engine. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 7.3L Power Stroke engine.

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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-15-2010, 06:33 PM Thread Starter
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Can a 7.3L with a 4R100 auto benefit from an exhaust brake?

Or does the 4R100 pretty much doom the idea?

Anyone know?

2003 F-350 SRW XLT 7.3L 4R100 PSD 4x4 Supercab SB 3.73
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RETIRED: 1985 Chevy K20 6.2L Turbo-400 3spd auto 4x4 4.10
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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-15-2010, 06:50 PM
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I have no idea what trans i have but I just added a DP TUNER with decel, now I can go down town ( all down hill) and never touch my brake. Fact is I slowed down so much I had turn it off before I got to the red light. It is great. I have a 2000 F-350
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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-15-2010, 08:58 PM
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Or does the 4R100 pretty much doom the idea?

Anyone know?
Why would the 4R100 doom the idea? It will work fine.

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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-16-2010, 08:43 AM Thread Starter
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Why would the 4R100 doom the idea? It will work fine.
I wasn't sure, given that the 4R100 doesn't have any built in way of shifting down on its own (a true "tow/haul" mode), if an exhaust brake would actually accomplish anything.

2003 F-350 SRW XLT 7.3L 4R100 PSD 4x4 Supercab SB 3.73
1994 Dodge 3500 SLT Dually 5.9L Cummins NV4500 5spd US Gear "splitter" Exhaust brake 4x4
RETIRED: 1985 Chevy K20 6.2L Turbo-400 3spd auto 4x4 4.10
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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-16-2010, 12:16 PM
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My Pac brake works great

'99 F-350 Crew DRW PSD Auto Manual-hub 4x4 Lariat BrightAmber Two tone(Prairie Tan), Leather ,Loaded:built 05/98:adopted 06/98
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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-16-2010, 01:05 PM
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Mine works great. I have toggle switch control of the EBPV.

Former Ford sensor engineer, 1991-1999

2000 F-350 CC Lariat PSD 4x4, AIS, AIC, BTM, Isspro EV2 gages, manual TC lockup, manual EBPV control, GPR LED monitor, DP-Tuner F6 with Drive-Thru, 60tow, Decel, 60econo, 80econo, 168k miles

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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-16-2010, 05:27 PM
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I used one for 40k+..just do not use a decell tune! BTS and Bill both agree!

First, in order to transfer the energy of the moving vehicle to the engine during deceleration, two things must occur: the torque converter must remain locked, and the coast clutch must be engaged. The problem with this is that the coast clutch on a stock transmission only has 3 friction plates, and these are smaller than the standard forward clutches. On 2001 and later transmissions, you also run the possibility of damaging the intermediate sprag or "diode," which will result in an immediate transmission teardown. Again, lightly loaded vehicles would have less of a problem with this, but the general idea of an exhaust brake is to be able to slow larger loads without overheating the standard brake system. It is these types of loads that can cause transmission damage.
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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-16-2010, 07:22 PM
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The problem with this is that the coast clutch on a stock transmission only has 3 friction plates, and these are smaller than the standard forward clutches.
Does this apply to the heavy-duty rebuilt models (a la BTS, etc.) as well?

1997 F350 CC DRW E4OD POS. electric fuel, DIY6637, Beans Stage I. 200k and counting.

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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-16-2010, 08:46 PM
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First, in order to transfer the energy of the moving vehicle to the engine during deceleration, two things must occur: the torque converter must remain locked, and the coast clutch must be engaged.
No, that's not right. The torque converter may be unlocked and there will still be engine braking. By actual measurements there is 10% more engine braking with the torque converter locked, but you still have 90% with the converter unlocked.

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The problem with this is that the coast clutch on a stock transmission only has 3 friction plates, and these are smaller than the standard forward clutches.
Non-PTO 4R100s have a two plate coast clutch. The PTO version has three plates.

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On 2001 and later transmissions, you also run the possibility of damaging the intermediate sprag or "diode," which will result in an immediate transmission teardown.
The mechanical diode was only in the first 3/4 of the 2001 model year. After March, 2001 it was not in any 4R100.

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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-17-2010, 01:59 AM
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No, that's not right. The torque converter may be unlocked and there will still be engine braking. By actual measurements there is 10% more engine braking with the torque converter locked, but you still have 90% with the converter unlocked.


Non-PTO 4R100s have a two plate coast clutch. The PTO version has three plates.


The mechanical diode was only in the first 3/4 of the 2001 model year. After March, 2001 it was not in any 4R100.
So what's your point? Is a decel tune good, bad or indifferent for the auto transmission?

Michael
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post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-17-2010, 04:17 AM
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My point was there was a lot of misinformation in that post. I corrected it.

I can't comment on a decel tune. I don't know what a decel tune is.

Mark
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post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-17-2010, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
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I can't comment on a decel tune. I don't know what a decel tune is.
In effect, it's an electronic exhaust brake that uses the exhaust back pressure valve (EBPV) as the retarder. Sold by DP-Tuner as one of the "tunes" (PCM program or calibration) you can include on their multi-position chip with a "shift-on-the-fly" tune switcher.

Basically, at the top of the grade before you head down the mountain, you switch the tune to "decel" and the EBPV closes. At the bottom of the grade you switch the tune back to your towing tune and the EBPV opens.

The decel tune includes transmission and torque converter controls required for coasting down the grade with a heavy trailer pushing on you, but only minimum engine controls. It cannot be used for other than coming down the mountain, so you must have a shift-on-the-fly capable multiple-position chip to use it.





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My Sierra Blanca (Spanish for White Mountain) in the sig pic was a great pickup for 11.5 years. I sold it several years ago. I drove a hand-me-down 2003 F-150 SuperCrew 4.6L 2V for a while, but it was unacceptable for towing more than a rowboat. Replacement is a 2012 F-150 EcoBoost SuperCrew Lariat that tows my 5,000-pound TT like a dream. Replaced the 2012 with a 2019 F-150 3.5L EcoBoost with max tow.
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post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-17-2010, 12:44 PM
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I would assume both Bill at PBP and Brian at BTS knows what will and what won't work and why..here is Bill's info link..Power Hungry Performance - Frequently Asked Questions

BTS..call and ask why and he'll explane and let you know how many trans he rebuilt that use'd this method.

A JW or BTS built trans is safe to use with a BD or other brake.
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post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-17-2010, 07:06 PM Thread Starter
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LOL. Now I'm confused. Let me ask the question more directly:

If I were to install an "actual" exhaust brake from, say, US Gear, and not one of the cheaper, cheater options of using the EBPV, would the exhaust brake provide any benefits and would it work without grenading my 4R100?

I'd hate to get into a $2K operation only to find out it either won't work as advertised or will destroy my transmission.

2003 F-350 SRW XLT 7.3L 4R100 PSD 4x4 Supercab SB 3.73
1994 Dodge 3500 SLT Dually 5.9L Cummins NV4500 5spd US Gear "splitter" Exhaust brake 4x4
RETIRED: 1985 Chevy K20 6.2L Turbo-400 3spd auto 4x4 4.10
2003 Ford Explorer XLT 4.0L V-6 5-spd auto 4wd 3.55
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post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-17-2010, 07:49 PM
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I put a US Gear exhaust brake on a 7.3L van with an E4OD. It worked very well and didn't grenade the trans. The 4R100 is stronger than the E4OD. I don't see why you would have any problem, with one possible exception. I would avoid moving the shifter to 1 when engine braking because that is a weak point. 2 is fine, and so is 3rd gear with OD OFF.

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