Can a 7.3L with a 4R100 auto benefit from an exhaust brake? - Page 2 - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
'99 & up Upgrades and Aftermarket - 7.3L Engine Upgrading or adding OEM or aftermarket equipment to your 1999-Up Super Duty or Excursion with 7.3L Power Stroke diesel engine. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 7.3L Power Stroke engine.

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post #16 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-18-2010, 07:49 AM Thread Starter
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Not sure if I'd ever shift down to 1st gear anyway, but why do you say 1st is a weak point?

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post #17 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-18-2010, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wobblin-Goblin View Post
If I were to install an "actual" exhaust brake from, say, US Gear, and not one of the cheaper, cheater options of using the EBPV, would the exhaust brake provide any benefits and would it work without grenading my 4R100?
Assuming proper installation, it will work great for retarding a heavy rig coming down a steep grade. About the only time you need it is when coming down a mountain pass with a heavy trailer pushing on you, but under that condition it will provide lots of retarding, thus saving the trailer brakes and the service brakes in the truck.

Note that an exhaust brake is effective only when engine RPM is over about 2,000. So they work good when downshifted at highway speeds, but not worth a dang when engine RPM falls below about 2000.

The only reason an exhaust brake might hurt the 4R100 tranny is if you allow the tranny to get too hot. The big side effect of an exhaust brake is it can heat up the tranny in a hurry, and a too-hot tranny is not long for this world. The only conditions where the tranny might overheat because of an exhaust brake is the really-long downhill grades, such as the 30+ miles on I-70 from the Eisenhower tunnel down to Denver.

So I wouldn't want one unless you have a tranny temp gauge with real numbers so you'll know if the tranny is getting too hot. Install the sender in the pressure port on the side of the 4R100 tranny, then use 225° as the red line. If the tranny temp gets over about 220°, then disengage the exhaust brake until the tranny cools back down to 210° or less.



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post #18 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-18-2010, 11:02 AM Thread Starter
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Smokey and all the rest of the guys, thank you for taking the time on this.

I know the benefits of an exhaust brake, because my father has two Dodge/Cummins pickups with EBs. One is a '93 SRW and the other is a '94 DRW. Both have NV4500 5 spd manuals.

It was only very recently that I was made aware of the possibility of installing an exhaust brake on my '03. For years I thought the 4R100 auto wouldn't allow for it, and now I'm learning that it is indeed worthwhile.

From what I suspect, this is what I am looking at if I go ahead with the project:

1. The US Gear super heavy duty EB ($1,295) needs 3.5" exhaust. I still have the stock 3" exhaust, so at least part of my stock exhaust system will need to be replaced with 3.5" pipe.

2. My stock transmission oil cooler should be replaced with a 6.0L version to help keep cool the ATF.

3. I need to install a real, aftermarket transmission temp gauge.

4. My 4R100 (as well as my 7.3L) is completely stock. Will anything need to be done to it, or is the 6.0L TOC enough?

5. ?

Thanks again, everybody.

2003 F-350 SRW XLT 7.3L 4R100 PSD 4x4 Supercab SB 3.73
1994 Dodge 3500 SLT Dually 5.9L Cummins NV4500 5spd US Gear "splitter" Exhaust brake 4x4
RETIRED: 1985 Chevy K20 6.2L Turbo-400 3spd auto 4x4 4.10
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post #19 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-18-2010, 11:34 AM
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Most of your exhaust is 3.5". The down pipe is the only part that is 3".

2000 F250 Lariat CC SB 4x4 PSD Auto
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post #20 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-18-2010, 03:08 PM
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I'll give you my most recent experience. I've only had my EBPV-based brake this year, so I'm not an expert, but have already towed over Monarch, Vail, and Eisenhower Passes both directions grossing around 18k. It's very effective and takes the worry out of steep downhill braking.

I've found my EB to be effective under 2000 RPM, just not AS effective as over 2000 RPM. I use it in 3rd and 2nd gears as appropriate to control RPM and downhill road speed but found that I could stay in 3rd down Vail and Eisenhower Passes using the EB.

I have a trans temp gage and have yet to observe it hotter than 150-160 deg. while using the EB. I have a manual TC lockup switch and pretty much only use the EB with the TC locked. Like Mark said, it is effective without TC lockup; I just don't use it that way. As for overall effect on transmission life, I don't know much about that. Mine is doing fine.

I've observed that the EGT hovers around 400 deg or slightly above because work is being performed upstream of the EB. No worries, here. This is after several miles of steep downhill on the big mountains passes mentioned above.

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post #21 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-18-2010, 04:51 PM
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I used the BD towing HEAVY for 40k and light loads for another 100k..it replaced the warm up valve on my '95. It would slow me down enough hauling 10k down the grape vine on I5 that I would need to occasionally turn it off. I put them on SD's hauling HEAVY that ran over hy 88 near tahoe...never needed to touch the brakes..
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post #22 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-03-2015, 01:44 PM
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Hey guys, I'm looking at a used 2003 F350 with a 7.3l engine to pull my 28' gooseneck horse trailer. It's rarely loaded with more than 10k lbs. horses included. The truck does not not have an exhaust or "Jake" brake. I'm being told I'd be better off with one. I do a lot of camping with the ponies and like the mountains. I'm confused on the data on all the boards about adding either braking system. What advise to you all have?

Add: I've talked with Ford and they won't advise nor will they do the work if I decide to go this route. I'll need to find an independent mechanic to do this. Located in Los Angeles, Ca/San Fernando Valley if you know of one. And this is an automatic.

Last edited by Debie; 08-03-2015 at 02:16 PM. Reason: additional info.
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post #23 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-10-2015, 05:19 PM
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of course ford is not going to give it blessing on anything non OEM. now on the newer fords the exhaust brake is on there..

if you do a search you can find post after post on how well the EBPV exhaust brake mod works.. one commonissue thrown up is the back pressure on valves but if you keep the RPM at or below 2000 is not know to be a problem.

Check out jody at DP tunes or search EBPV mod.

2003 F-250 7.3L 2wd crew, AIH delete, changed out EBP sensor. Planning: U-L ball joints , turbo ped & EBPV rebuild, WW, HPX, FLX, 4" exhaust, S&B ?, IH WP w/ filter & 203° Tstat, Fleetrunner belt, rerouted top rad hose, idler pulley, '10 mirrors, 12K winch, and more.
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post #24 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-10-2015, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debie View Post
The truck does not not have an exhaust or "Jake" brake. I'm being told I'd be better off with one.
An engine brake, also called a Jacobs Jake brake, cannot be installed on a 7.3L PowerStroke. So you are left with an exhaust brake.

There are two basic kinds of exhaust brakes. One is the "electronic" type that uses the exhaust backpressure "warm up" valve to retard the engine. Those are often available for a few hundred dollars, and if you search TheDieselStop you'll find DIY instructions for adding a DIY electronic exhaust brake. A good commercial example is the BD BrakeLoc:
BD Power - Product: 7.3L BrakeLoc

The other type is a "real" exhaust brake that adds a butterfly in the exhaust system, and costs around $1,000 or more. Examples include the Banks Brake, U.S.Gear exhaust brake, and PacBrake. BD made one for the 7.3L for years. but they no loger have them on theor website.

I had the less-expensive electronic type on my 7.3L. Worked great to retard my 7.3L dragging an 8,000-pound 5er down the mountain passes.




Last edited by SmokeyWren; 08-11-2015 at 12:16 AM.
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post #25 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-26-2019, 01:25 PM
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Hi Mark,
While looking through posts on using the EBPV as a brake, I came across your below quote from a long ago post.
When you say, "...2 is fine, and so is 3rd gear with OD OFF", are you implying that leaving the transmission in 4th while using the exhaust brake isn't a good thing?
--Just asking as I use the EBPV as a brake via the DP-Tuner decel program and do use it while the transmission is in 4th.

Thanks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Kovalsky View Post
I put a US Gear exhaust brake on a 7.3L van with an E4OD. It worked very well and didn't grenade the trans. The 4R100 is stronger than the E4OD. I don't see why you would have any problem, with one possible exception. I would avoid moving the shifter to 1 when engine braking because that is a weak point. 2 is fine, and so is 3rd gear with OD OFF.

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DP Tuner chip w/ 60econ, 120race, decel, hi idle
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John Wood Eco HD trans, 6.0 cooler and Maghytec tranny pan
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Airbags, Rancho RS9000XL shocks, Torklift Swaystops, Roadmaster 1.5" Rear Sway Bar
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post #26 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-26-2019, 01:52 PM
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You can use the exhaust brake in fourth gear, but it won't provide much braking effect. You need more RPM than you will have in fourth gear.

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post #27 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-26-2019, 04:06 PM
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Thanks. I was just concerned if there was some other reason not to use it in 4th, ie 4th gear not being strong enough.
There are grades where in 3rd and with the exhaust brake on, it's too much braking and 4th gear is just right.

1999 F350 DRW Long Bed Crew Cab 4x4
Carries 5000lb+ Lance Camper
DP Tuner chip w/ 60econ, 120race, decel, hi idle
Stancor Glow Plug Relay
VDO gauges
Ford AIS and zoodad mod
MagnaFlow 4" Exhaust and muffler
Bellowed Up Pipes from Int'l
John Wood Eco HD trans, 6.0 cooler and Maghytec tranny pan
Maghytec rear diff cover w/ Mobil 1 75W-140
Mobil 1 ATF in trans/transfer case/powersteering Magnafine filters for tranny and power steering
Airbags, Rancho RS9000XL shocks, Torklift Swaystops, Roadmaster 1.5" Rear Sway Bar
CCV mod
TransferFlow 57 gallon fuel tank
Riffraff fuel and oil crossover
Strictly Diesel fuel tank/pre-pump kit
Air intake heater delete Max A/C assist Braided 4WD shift hoses, Replacement boots for all turbo/intercooler boots, Coolant filtration system, 203*F thermostat
2 layers Dynamat Extreme on interior roof/floor/doors, Dynamat Xorb on Firewall
Alpine IVA1000 and amp, Python Alarm
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post #28 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-26-2019, 07:19 PM
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As this was one of the concerns I had actually brought to Diesel Stop Forum a while back I thought I would include this. I actually spoke with Jody at DP Tuner in some length about 4 days ago.
I wanted to know exactly what the “tune” controls for using the EBPV as an exhaust brake.
After talking with Jody I am convinced it will fill my needs. It is shift on the fly between tunes and when in the decel tune it takes away all throttle response—you cannot accelerate even if you stomp the go pedal. Then once descended the tune will have to be exited for acceleration. I am not worried about oil leakage of the EBPV actuator as for my use would be very limited. Also as pointed out by Jody, when I do the upgrade to DP Tuner I will replace my TS-6 so I can take advantage of a larger selection of DP tunes—and not just reburn TS chip and be restricted to six positions.
I needed to plan ahead to address issues of the turbo pedestal EBPV delete or not if I work on my turbo—I will leave my pedestal stock for use with the tune at a later date.

Last edited by Big Horn; 01-26-2019 at 07:21 PM.
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post #29 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-27-2019, 12:00 PM
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When you say,
"It is shift on the fly between tunes and when in the decel tune it takes away all throttle response—you cannot accelerate even if you stomp the go pedal."
you're right on that! --Once I had the decel program running on a downhill and realized I'd missed my turn off. I got of the downhill and in the process of trying to turn around in a small area, forgot I still had the decel program running. I was trying to back up; I was pushing on the go pedal and the engine was making noise but I wasn't going anywhere. A closer glance in the rear view mirror showed an enormous cloud of black smoke coming from the exhaust pipe. After cursing myself I took it out of decel and all was fine. I think I called Jody after this to ask what was going on but have forgot his response. Maybe if he's watching this thread he can chime in and explain what happened. I have to admit there's been a couple other times I've been distracted and forgot to take it out of decel and attempted to drive.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Horn View Post
As this was one of the concerns I had actually brought to Diesel Stop Forum a while back I thought I would include this. I actually spoke with Jody at DP Tuner in some length about 4 days ago.
I wanted to know exactly what the “tune” controls for using the EBPV as an exhaust brake.
After talking with Jody I am convinced it will fill my needs. It is shift on the fly between tunes and when in the decel tune it takes away all throttle response—you cannot accelerate even if you stomp the go pedal. Then once descended the tune will have to be exited for acceleration. I am not worried about oil leakage of the EBPV actuator as for my use would be very limited. Also as pointed out by Jody, when I do the upgrade to DP Tuner I will replace my TS-6 so I can take advantage of a larger selection of DP tunes—and not just reburn TS chip and be restricted to six positions.
I needed to plan ahead to address issues of the turbo pedestal EBPV delete or not if I work on my turbo—I will leave my pedestal stock for use with the tune at a later date.

1999 F350 DRW Long Bed Crew Cab 4x4
Carries 5000lb+ Lance Camper
DP Tuner chip w/ 60econ, 120race, decel, hi idle
Stancor Glow Plug Relay
VDO gauges
Ford AIS and zoodad mod
MagnaFlow 4" Exhaust and muffler
Bellowed Up Pipes from Int'l
John Wood Eco HD trans, 6.0 cooler and Maghytec tranny pan
Maghytec rear diff cover w/ Mobil 1 75W-140
Mobil 1 ATF in trans/transfer case/powersteering Magnafine filters for tranny and power steering
Airbags, Rancho RS9000XL shocks, Torklift Swaystops, Roadmaster 1.5" Rear Sway Bar
CCV mod
TransferFlow 57 gallon fuel tank
Riffraff fuel and oil crossover
Strictly Diesel fuel tank/pre-pump kit
Air intake heater delete Max A/C assist Braided 4WD shift hoses, Replacement boots for all turbo/intercooler boots, Coolant filtration system, 203*F thermostat
2 layers Dynamat Extreme on interior roof/floor/doors, Dynamat Xorb on Firewall
Alpine IVA1000 and amp, Python Alarm
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post #30 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-27-2019, 12:02 PM
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Also Big Horn, Here's a very minor point you may have already thought of. What I did to make the DP-Tuner decel program easier to use was to make it the very last program. That way when you're heading downhill and focused on the road all you need to do is hit the "+" button on the tuner multiple times and it will end up in the decel program. Better than having the decel program #4 of 7 programs and having to push the tuner button a precise number of times.

1999 F350 DRW Long Bed Crew Cab 4x4
Carries 5000lb+ Lance Camper
DP Tuner chip w/ 60econ, 120race, decel, hi idle
Stancor Glow Plug Relay
VDO gauges
Ford AIS and zoodad mod
MagnaFlow 4" Exhaust and muffler
Bellowed Up Pipes from Int'l
John Wood Eco HD trans, 6.0 cooler and Maghytec tranny pan
Maghytec rear diff cover w/ Mobil 1 75W-140
Mobil 1 ATF in trans/transfer case/powersteering Magnafine filters for tranny and power steering
Airbags, Rancho RS9000XL shocks, Torklift Swaystops, Roadmaster 1.5" Rear Sway Bar
CCV mod
TransferFlow 57 gallon fuel tank
Riffraff fuel and oil crossover
Strictly Diesel fuel tank/pre-pump kit
Air intake heater delete Max A/C assist Braided 4WD shift hoses, Replacement boots for all turbo/intercooler boots, Coolant filtration system, 203*F thermostat
2 layers Dynamat Extreme on interior roof/floor/doors, Dynamat Xorb on Firewall
Alpine IVA1000 and amp, Python Alarm
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