chip or programmer??? - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
'99 & up Upgrades and Aftermarket - 7.3L Engine Upgrading or adding OEM or aftermarket equipment to your 1999-Up Super Duty or Excursion with 7.3L Power Stroke diesel engine. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 7.3L Power Stroke engine.

 
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-10-2006, 01:53 PM Thread Starter
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chip or programmer???

what is the difference between the two? common sence would tell me that the programmer does the same as a chip only giving you read out of what your truck is doing and being able to have custom programs that you can change yourself. if i'm way off let me know. i'm trying to find out for my brother in-law.

'00 F-250 7.3L SC, LB, DP-Tuner, 5" Straight Pipe, S&B cold air intake, autometer cobalt trans & boost, autometer C2 pyro, pillar pod, 305/70/16 Fun Country IIs, 16x9 Moto Metal 951s, Rancho RS9000X, Kenwood, MB Quart, Phoenix Gold
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-10-2006, 01:57 PM
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Re: chip or programmer???

DP Tuner.........Chip for 7.3


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Early 99 crew cab shorty 4X4
Custom tuned by DP Tuner
Modified H2e
Diesel Innovations - HP Crossover
Diesel Innovations - Regulated fuel return
Beans 530 Hybrids
Diesel Innovations - "Big DIIC" intercooler
Diesel Innovations - F.A.S.S. 150/180 Fuel System
Brians Truck Shop - BTS Tranny
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-10-2006, 03:10 PM
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Re: chip or programmer???

The programmer just re-flashes the PCM throught the diagnostic port. The chip actually plugs into the PCM and overrides it.
Most programmers have the ability to read/show codes and some other information, a chip doesn't.
Chips and programmers both can be had with custom programs.
A chip also allows you to switch programs on the fly with a twist of the knob.

2000 F-250 Ex.Cab 4x4 Auto with Homemade Intake, 4" Exhaust, DP Tuner Chip, Tugger Kit, 2 HPOPs, ITP Fuel System/Boost Regulator, AC injectors, and Van Turbo/WW
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-10-2006, 05:09 PM
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Re: chip or programmer???

Or a push of the button. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img]

95 F350 Crewcab4X4: TE Twin Turbo(BB fed by a Precision Hybrid from BWD), Industrial Injection BD Injectors, DIIC with custom stainless 3" piping, Terminator HPOS, DI headstuds, BTS tranny, TruCool 40GVW cooler, DP LIVE TUNED F5 with Extreme ICP(ya, it works)!, Custom fuel system, MagHytec diff cover.

01 F350 Regcab4X4: soon to be shortened.

97 F350 Regcab4X4: Twin Turbo's, lots of fuel and oil.

02 Excursion4X4Limited: Wifes ride: Terminator HPOS2, DP Tuner F5



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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-10-2006, 05:26 PM
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Re: chip or programmer???

Right. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

2000 F-250 Ex.Cab 4x4 Auto with Homemade Intake, 4" Exhaust, DP Tuner Chip, Tugger Kit, 2 HPOPs, ITP Fuel System/Boost Regulator, AC injectors, and Van Turbo/WW
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-10-2006, 06:14 PM
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Re: chip or programmer???

[ QUOTE ]
what is the difference between the two?

[/ QUOTE ]

They interface with your PCM in two different ways, but they both produce similar results, as long as you aren't talking about trying to win the Nationals. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img]

You need to get with a program developer such as Jody at www.DP-Tuner.com or David Lott at http://www.dieselinnovations.com/di.php to see what are the limitations of programming a tuner compared to programming a chip. If I understand it correctly, you can do almost the same things with a computer program in a tuner as you can in a chip. But not everything. The chip has access to more parameters than the tuner does.

[ QUOTE ]
common sence would tell me that the programmer does the same as a chip only giving you read out of what your truck is doing and being able to have custom programs that you can change yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what you said, so let me restate it.

Some tuners can also read diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs), and chips can't do that.

Both can have one or more custom programs loaded and useable. But a big difference is that the owner can - on the fly and in only a second - change which program on a multi-position chip you want active in the PCM. But if you want to change the active program to a different one stored in your tuner, you have to stop, plug in the tuner, and it will take a few minutes.

Another difference today is that most tuners have only 3 or so programs - stock, tow and go fast. Whereas some multi-position chips have a lot more than 3 - for example, stock, high idle, tow 1, tow 2, tow 3, go fast mild, go fast wild, go fast enough to blow up. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Personally, I have an Edge Evolution tuner. I use the tow program only, and don't have any use for black smoke or wild go-fast programs.

But if I were going to do something different tomorrow, I'd probably call Jody and get his advice as to whether I need the SCT X-Cal2 tuner or a multi-position chip with only 3 programs on it. I'd like a stock program in case I need to visit the dealer for a fixit, plus his best tow program for grossing 16k to 17.5k, and maybe one DP-Tuner mild go fast program for running around unloaded. The goal of the go fast program would be the most power Jody can wring out of my 7.3L with zero black smoke and, hopefully, better fuel mileage than the stock or towing program.

But YMMV. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/warmsmile.gif[/img]





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My Sierra Blanca (Spanish for White Mountain) in the sig pic was a great pickup for 11.5 years. I sold it several years ago. I drove a hand-me-down 2003 F-150 SuperCrew 4.6L 2V for a while, but it was unacceptable for towing more than a rowboat. Replacement is a 2012 F-150 EcoBoost SuperCrew Lariat that tows my 5,000-pound TT like a dream. Replaced the 2012 with a 2019 F-150 3.5L EcoBoost with max tow.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-10-2006, 06:42 PM
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Re: chip or programmer???

[ QUOTE ]
what is the difference between the two?

[/ QUOTE ]

As Smokey said there are several, However if you are looking for versatility the chip is the way to go. I change programming ALL the time. The chip is reburnable on the spot and as Smokey said you can or should I say your programmer can play with ALL variables...I personel like the chip. my father runs a EDGE and the funny part is if we want to play he has to stop and upload the RACE mode proir to getting after it... I Just flip the switch....And get ur done!!!

Chris
--------------------
2000 F-350 4dr 4x4 Auto.
Bean Injectors & Chip
BTS trans and TC.

Only pass in 2005:
14.74 @ 93 mph on the stock chip setting @ 8800lbs.
BB Turbo
EVERYTHING ELSE STOCK!
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-11-2006, 07:18 AM
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Re: chip or programmer???

Well I will be the odd ball here. I say it depends on how you use the truck. I don't need the switch on the fly, I am not drag racing ricers, or loping in WalMarts parking lot. I stay in one tune 90% of the time. If I am going to tow, it takes less than 2 min to switch to the tow program. In order to change a tune I never have to open the PCM, just read all the posts on this forum where people don't get the contacts cleaned and the chip settled just right. If you have a chip and you want something changed you must send it back to Jody. I can do it the same day via email, I call Jody, he tweaks the program, sends it to me via email and I download it to the device and out to the truck. I can hold infinite programs on my PC and load which ever three I want on the tuner. The tuner allows me to read all the trouble codes, adjust speedo for different size tires, and adjust many different engine and tranny parameters, although I don't touch this stuff. I can use it in conjunction with my laptop and record live data as the truck is running, this can be useful to send to Jody so he knows exactly what the truck is doing. So you see for me the tuner provided much more bang for the buck. You need to look at your specific needs and do what is best for you. This thing about the tunes being different for the SCT, then for a chip is the first I have heard. I asked Jody when I bought mine and he said there were the same tune. The tuner or programmer is just a storage device, just like a mp3 player, so I see no reason why the tunes would be any different. I can say I love the way my truck performs and the SCT2 was the right choice for me.
OH I can use my SCT2 to read codes on any Ford vehicle.

NCH
2000 Ford F350 4X4 Auto,Crew Cab Lariat, Western Hauler Package, Long bed,
Isspro EV Guages on A-Pillar, Coolant change from Green to Gold to Red,
SCT XCalibrator2 with DP's 60 tow,80 econo,120 Race
Fumoto Valve, Marinco Mod, Homemade CCV MOD,Fuel Neck Mod, KMC Wheels at all 4's
Monroe Reflex Shoxs, SS/Kevlar Brake Lines,
FTVB from Greg Evans,Ford AIS Intake
Coolant filter,Walker BTM, Attwood Gooseneck ball flush mount,6.0 cooler, 2002 headlights & corners
Zoodad Mod,Cyro'd Powerslots and Hawks LTS Pads. 2005 front grill
Turbo Lifesaver, Infinity Refrence x4, powered by Infinity Reference amp, sounds awesome!!
Towing a 2005 HORNET 30BHSS 8500 LBS,
Stopping it with a Prodigy P3 Controller

Friends Don't Let Friends Drive Trucks With Generic Tunes!!


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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-11-2006, 09:38 AM
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Re: chip or programmer???

[ QUOTE ]
I don't need the switch on the fly, I am not drag racing ricers, or loping in WalMarts parking lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, but sometime it is nice for other reasons..

[ QUOTE ]
In order to change a tune I never have to open the PCM, just read all the posts on this forum where people don't get the contacts cleaned and the chip settled just right

[/ QUOTE ]

Once the chip is installed there should be no settling, the case for the ECM acts as a holder by butting up on the chip when installed, it's a tight fit..

[ QUOTE ]
If you have a chip and you want something changed you must send it back to Jody. I can do it the same day via email, I call Jody, he tweaks the program, sends it to me via email and I download it to the device and out to the truck.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the same for a chip if you have a burner..

[ QUOTE ]
The tuner allows me to read all the trouble codes, adjust speedo for different size tires, and adjust many different engine and tranny parameters, although I don't touch this stuff. I can use it in conjunction with my laptop and record live data as the truck is running,

[/ QUOTE ]

Very true sorry I had forgot to say this..I feel this is the biggest benifit of a programmer.

[ QUOTE ]
This thing about the tunes being different for the SCT, then for a chip is the first I have heard. I asked Jody when I bought mine and he said there were the same tune.

[/ QUOTE ]

Only if you request it..ie..When you get a chip say from DI,TS,Bean,Jody you give them a idea of what you want and based off the equipment on your truck they will decide with you how HOT the tunes will be..If you buy a EDGE,Hypertec,etc.. you get a generic set of tunes normally 50,75,100,race this can be the same for a chip if you just call one of the vendors and say I have a 2000 4x4 a NVK code.. they will send you a generic set of programs for that application. I was unaware that a SCT was this easy to customize, but good to know..

Chris
--------------------
2000 F-350 4dr 4x4 Auto.
Bean Injectors & Chip
BTS trans and TC.

Only pass in 2005:
14.74 @ 93 mph on the stock chip setting @ 8800lbs.
BB Turbo
EVERYTHING ELSE STOCK!
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-11-2006, 12:34 PM
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Re: chip or programmer???

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't need the switch on the fly, I am not drag racing ricers, or loping in WalMarts parking lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, but sometime it is nice for other reasons..
<font color="red">I agree, that is why everyone has to decide for themselves what fits their particular needs </font>

[ QUOTE ]
In order to change a tune I never have to open the PCM, just read all the posts on this forum where people don't get the contacts cleaned and the chip settled just right

[/ QUOTE ]

Once the chip is installed there should be no settling, the case for the ECM acts as a holder by butting up on the chip when installed, it's a tight fit..
<font color="red">What I was trying to say is that many people have trouble when installing their chip, and later on down the line if the thing comes loose, by not having to ever open the PCM it removes these possibilities. </font>

[ QUOTE ]
If you have a chip and you want something changed you must send it back to Jody. I can do it the same day via email, I call Jody, he tweaks the program, sends it to me via email and I download it to the device and out to the truck.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the same for a chip if you have a burner..
<font color="red">OK,OK, but how many people have a chip burner? Not many, I myself like the idea of changes being made via email and storing as many files as I want on my PC. </font>

[ QUOTE ]
The tuner allows me to read all the trouble codes, adjust speedo for different size tires, and adjust many different engine and tranny parameters, although I don't touch this stuff. I can use it in conjunction with my laptop and record live data as the truck is running,

[/ QUOTE ]

Very true sorry I had forgot to say this..I feel this is the biggest benifit of a programmer.

[ QUOTE ]
This thing about the tunes being different for the SCT, then for a chip is the first I have heard. I asked Jody when I bought mine and he said there were the same tune.

[/ QUOTE ]

Only if you request it..ie..When you get a chip say from DI,TS,Bean,Jody you give them a idea of what you want and based off the equipment on your truck they will decide with you how HOT the tunes will be..If you buy a EDGE,Hypertec,etc.. you get a generic set of tunes normally 50,75,100,race this can be the same for a chip if you just call one of the vendors and say I have a 2000 4x4 a NVK code.. they will send you a generic set of programs for that application. I was unaware that a SCT was this easy to customize, but good to know..
<font color="red"> </font> Don't get me wrong I am not saying a programmer is any better than a chip, they are simply two different methods of getting the tuning to the computer. What works for one doesn't for another. This is why it is awesome that folks like Jody have many different options to enjoy their tunes on your vehicle. There is also a huge difference between the off the shelf generic tunes and tunes from guys like Jody, Tony DI etc...

[/ QUOTE ]

NCH
2000 Ford F350 4X4 Auto,Crew Cab Lariat, Western Hauler Package, Long bed,
Isspro EV Guages on A-Pillar, Coolant change from Green to Gold to Red,
SCT XCalibrator2 with DP's 60 tow,80 econo,120 Race
Fumoto Valve, Marinco Mod, Homemade CCV MOD,Fuel Neck Mod, KMC Wheels at all 4's
Monroe Reflex Shoxs, SS/Kevlar Brake Lines,
FTVB from Greg Evans,Ford AIS Intake
Coolant filter,Walker BTM, Attwood Gooseneck ball flush mount,6.0 cooler, 2002 headlights & corners
Zoodad Mod,Cyro'd Powerslots and Hawks LTS Pads. 2005 front grill
Turbo Lifesaver, Infinity Refrence x4, powered by Infinity Reference amp, sounds awesome!!
Towing a 2005 HORNET 30BHSS 8500 LBS,
Stopping it with a Prodigy P3 Controller

Friends Don't Let Friends Drive Trucks With Generic Tunes!!


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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-11-2006, 02:45 PM Thread Starter
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Re: chip or programmer???

thanks guys. i pretty much knew most of that and learned a little more about the programmer. my brother in-law said that he had wanted something he can shift on the fly, so i guess the chip would be the best choice for him.

'00 F-250 7.3L SC, LB, DP-Tuner, 5" Straight Pipe, S&B cold air intake, autometer cobalt trans & boost, autometer C2 pyro, pillar pod, 305/70/16 Fun Country IIs, 16x9 Moto Metal 951s, Rancho RS9000X, Kenwood, MB Quart, Phoenix Gold
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-11-2006, 03:02 PM
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Re: chip or programmer???

I am running a Superchips 110hp programmer and just ordered a DP Tuner from Jody today.Stock ,hi idle(1100rpm),60 tow 80econo with propane file and 120 race with push button.I thought about keeping the programmer for DTC's but have a friend with complete Snap-on diagnostic reading abilities at his shop.

'02 Black F-350srw Lariat. 7.3/CC/SB/OR. BTS tranny with 6.0 cooler,coated TN bb1.00 w/Hi-flow outlet,Non-EBP ped,BWD coated/bellowed up-pipes,D.P Tuner.F5(stock,Hi-idle,60tow,80econo,120race),4" SS Magnaflow,BDS stabilizers ,Fluidampr,AFE Stage2w/PG7&pre-filter,Spearco 6.0 IC,PML pan,HPOX,Airdog,ITP reg.return,MAP Maximizer,8 spring front, BFG 315/75/16 AT's,DTS 4.56LS gears,Mag-Hytec cover,Dieselsite SS ESOF lines,coolant filter,203* stat w/billet&Fleetrite,Optix fuel on column,Ultra-Lite trans,pyro,boost on pillar.All fluids Mobil1,Energy polys,Centramatic,Fumoto,Billet,Line-X,Husky box,Extang,EGR,Alpine,Viper,Dynamat,Sirius,PIAA,Hu sky-Liner,Bilsteins. Door ding,overhead console,Snowman,Zoodad,Harpoon,AIH,Marinco,CCV,foi l mods. Hawks and Powerslot cryo's
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-11-2006, 03:02 PM
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Re: chip or programmer???

That would be the only choice for him.
Merry Christmas

NCH
2000 Ford F350 4X4 Auto,Crew Cab Lariat, Western Hauler Package, Long bed,
Isspro EV Guages on A-Pillar, Coolant change from Green to Gold to Red,
SCT XCalibrator2 with DP's 60 tow,80 econo,120 Race
Fumoto Valve, Marinco Mod, Homemade CCV MOD,Fuel Neck Mod, KMC Wheels at all 4's
Monroe Reflex Shoxs, SS/Kevlar Brake Lines,
FTVB from Greg Evans,Ford AIS Intake
Coolant filter,Walker BTM, Attwood Gooseneck ball flush mount,6.0 cooler, 2002 headlights & corners
Zoodad Mod,Cyro'd Powerslots and Hawks LTS Pads. 2005 front grill
Turbo Lifesaver, Infinity Refrence x4, powered by Infinity Reference amp, sounds awesome!!
Towing a 2005 HORNET 30BHSS 8500 LBS,
Stopping it with a Prodigy P3 Controller

Friends Don't Let Friends Drive Trucks With Generic Tunes!!


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