Help with JIC fitting on RiffRaff HPx ?? - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-30-2013, 08:14 PM Thread Starter
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Help with JIC fitting on RiffRaff HPx ??

Not wanting to miss the opportunity to take something simple and make it difficult, I installed the Riffraff HPx crossover today and think I may have messed it up so wanted to check with those who are familiar with the JIC, flare type fittings used on the Riffraff HPx kit.

It's a very simple install. I got the ORB to JIC fitting into the oil rail no problem. Then installed the solid cross over line with its flare fitting and flare nut. I was unsure of how much torque to use on the flare nut so called riffraff to get a torque spec, they said there wasn't a reference but that it needed to be "pretty tight to crush the ferral in the flare fitting."

So with a 8" open wrench I began tightening. After plenty turning of the wrench, I noticed I had the flare nut bottomed out on the ORB nut. Didn't really seem to take that much torque to do it; I was using only a 8" wrench and in a awkward position where I couldn't really wrench on it. Besides having the flare nut bottomed out on the ORB nut, the other thing that makes me think it's messed up is the flare nut got easier to turn at the end of the tightening, like something stripped or yielded.

Haven't started to motor up yet because I'm in the middle of the Fuel cross over install. But if I've messed up this fitting, might as well start over with it. Even if it holds oil pressure now, maybe it won't at some point due to damage I've caused? What do you think? Is it possible to over torque these JIC fittings and damage them?
Thanks

1999 F350 DRW Long Bed Crew Cab 4x4
Carries 5000lb+ Lance Camper
DP Tuner chip w/ 60econ, 120race, decel, hi idle
Stancor Glow Plug Relay
VDO gauges
Ford AIS and zoodad mod
MagnaFlow 4" Exhaust and muffler
Bellowed Up Pipes from Int'l
John Wood Eco HD trans, 6.0 cooler and Maghytec tranny pan
Maghytec rear diff cover w/ Mobil 1 75W-140
Mobil 1 ATF in trans/transfer case/powersteering Magnafine filters for tranny and power steering
Airbags, KYB Monomax shocks, Torklift Swaystops, Roadmaster 1.5" Rear Sway Bar
CCV mod
TransferFlow 57 gallon fuel tank
Riffraff fuel and oil crossover
Strictly Diesel fuel tank/pre-pump kit
Air intake heater delete Max A/C assist Braided 4WD shift hoses, Replacement boots for all turbo/intercooler boots, Coolant filtration system, 203*F thermostat
2 layers Dynamat Extreme on interior roof/floor/doors, Dynamat Xorb on Firewall
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-30-2013, 10:09 PM
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I don't have an answer for your question so hopefully someone will chime in with some input. I do have a question for you though. Did you use a 9/32 square socket to take out the plugs for the FrX? I can't find one anywhere. I bought a set of craftmans that said they would do square along with a few others but it didn't seem to grab and felt like it was stripping so I stopped. I have read of people using vice grips but I am afraid it may just strip and then I'll really be up a creek

2013 F250 Platinum 4x4 CC 6.7- Carli Commuter 2.0 suspension, 18x9 BMF Novakane, 35 12.5 R18 Nitto Trail Grappler MT, Titan 50 gallon fuel tank


Black 2002 F350 XLT 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3L (build date 11-01) - Nitto Trail Grappler MT 35 12.5 R18 mounted on KMC XD Monster 18x9 Wheels, 4 inch ProComp Lift w/ dual front shocks, Bilstein steering stabilizer,Red-Head Steering gear, Ranch Hand-Full replacement front/rear bumpers, Leer Camper Shell, Autometer Triple guage pillar pod with Autometer Sport Comp Pyro and boost gages, Autometer Ultra lite digital Trans temp gage, DP Tuner (60hp econo, 60hp tow, 100 hp performance) w/ in dash mounted ex switcher,Ford AIS, International bellowed up pipes, FrX, Driven Diesel Fuel Tank / Pre-Pump Kit (Hutch Mod), HD4r100, 6.0 cooler, Stancor GPR, Dieselsite Max cold, Viper 3000 alarm, RBP RX-3 Nerf bars

Cosmetic upgrades: 2010 Tailgate, 2011 power folding/telescoping towing mirrors,

In the works: 2009 FX4 door panels with OEM switches, OEM backup camera and LCD rear view mirror, OEM Overhead console
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-30-2013, 10:42 PM Thread Starter
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Hi Jposes,
I can't say because I haven't removed the plugs yet. I got the fuel regulator off and noticed that the sealing seat on the plunger didn't look too good. My understanding is this seal on the plunger is extremely critical for proper function of the regulator. If it doesn't seal you can have problems with pressure regulation. So ordered a new one and am waiting for it to arrive before finishing the fuel crossover install.
As for getting the plugs out did you read this thread?,
http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/...x-help-278718/
Do a subject only search on Frx and you'll get more info on it.

1999 F350 DRW Long Bed Crew Cab 4x4
Carries 5000lb+ Lance Camper
DP Tuner chip w/ 60econ, 120race, decel, hi idle
Stancor Glow Plug Relay
VDO gauges
Ford AIS and zoodad mod
MagnaFlow 4" Exhaust and muffler
Bellowed Up Pipes from Int'l
John Wood Eco HD trans, 6.0 cooler and Maghytec tranny pan
Maghytec rear diff cover w/ Mobil 1 75W-140
Mobil 1 ATF in trans/transfer case/powersteering Magnafine filters for tranny and power steering
Airbags, KYB Monomax shocks, Torklift Swaystops, Roadmaster 1.5" Rear Sway Bar
CCV mod
TransferFlow 57 gallon fuel tank
Riffraff fuel and oil crossover
Strictly Diesel fuel tank/pre-pump kit
Air intake heater delete Max A/C assist Braided 4WD shift hoses, Replacement boots for all turbo/intercooler boots, Coolant filtration system, 203*F thermostat
2 layers Dynamat Extreme on interior roof/floor/doors, Dynamat Xorb on Firewall
Alpine IVA1000 and amp, Python Alarm
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-31-2013, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farnorthdriver View Post
Hi Jposes,
I can't say because I haven't removed the plugs yet. I got the fuel regulator off and noticed that the sealing seat on the plunger didn't look too good. My understanding is this seal on the plunger is extremely critical for proper function of the regulator. If it doesn't seal you can have problems with pressure regulation. So ordered a new one and am waiting for it to arrive before finishing the fuel crossover install.
As for getting the plugs out did you read this thread?,
http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/...x-help-278718/
Do a subject only search on Frx and you'll get more info on it.
Thanks for the reply. I had not seen that yet, but I have already tried PB blaster and so far it still does not want to come out. I did search on here but I rarely come up with anything good when using the search feature on this site or any other forum for that matter.

2013 F250 Platinum 4x4 CC 6.7- Carli Commuter 2.0 suspension, 18x9 BMF Novakane, 35 12.5 R18 Nitto Trail Grappler MT, Titan 50 gallon fuel tank


Black 2002 F350 XLT 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3L (build date 11-01) - Nitto Trail Grappler MT 35 12.5 R18 mounted on KMC XD Monster 18x9 Wheels, 4 inch ProComp Lift w/ dual front shocks, Bilstein steering stabilizer,Red-Head Steering gear, Ranch Hand-Full replacement front/rear bumpers, Leer Camper Shell, Autometer Triple guage pillar pod with Autometer Sport Comp Pyro and boost gages, Autometer Ultra lite digital Trans temp gage, DP Tuner (60hp econo, 60hp tow, 100 hp performance) w/ in dash mounted ex switcher,Ford AIS, International bellowed up pipes, FrX, Driven Diesel Fuel Tank / Pre-Pump Kit (Hutch Mod), HD4r100, 6.0 cooler, Stancor GPR, Dieselsite Max cold, Viper 3000 alarm, RBP RX-3 Nerf bars

Cosmetic upgrades: 2010 Tailgate, 2011 power folding/telescoping towing mirrors,

In the works: 2009 FX4 door panels with OEM switches, OEM backup camera and LCD rear view mirror, OEM Overhead console
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-31-2013, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
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Well, if you find a good way to get the plugs out let me know. Spent about 1.5 hours today trying to get a variety of wrenches/sockets on the plug but was unsuccessful. Think I created a corrosion problems with all the sweat I dripped in the engine. Also, a lot of the wrenches/sockets I tried got dropped into the bowels of the engine and I then spent time retrieving them. Wow, this is going to be a bear.

1999 F350 DRW Long Bed Crew Cab 4x4
Carries 5000lb+ Lance Camper
DP Tuner chip w/ 60econ, 120race, decel, hi idle
Stancor Glow Plug Relay
VDO gauges
Ford AIS and zoodad mod
MagnaFlow 4" Exhaust and muffler
Bellowed Up Pipes from Int'l
John Wood Eco HD trans, 6.0 cooler and Maghytec tranny pan
Maghytec rear diff cover w/ Mobil 1 75W-140
Mobil 1 ATF in trans/transfer case/powersteering Magnafine filters for tranny and power steering
Airbags, KYB Monomax shocks, Torklift Swaystops, Roadmaster 1.5" Rear Sway Bar
CCV mod
TransferFlow 57 gallon fuel tank
Riffraff fuel and oil crossover
Strictly Diesel fuel tank/pre-pump kit
Air intake heater delete Max A/C assist Braided 4WD shift hoses, Replacement boots for all turbo/intercooler boots, Coolant filtration system, 203*F thermostat
2 layers Dynamat Extreme on interior roof/floor/doors, Dynamat Xorb on Firewall
Alpine IVA1000 and amp, Python Alarm
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-05-2013, 01:29 PM
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When installing mine i soaked it in penetrating oil the day before, then ran it that day, then soaked it again the morning of the install and used a small crescent wrench and they came right out no problem

03 F250 Lariat 7.3 4x4 CC SB, Autometer Pyro,Boost,Trans, DP F5 80 Econ, 80 Tow, 60 Tow, Decel, 120 Race, Tymar intake, 5 in MBRP, Garrett GTP38R, Stage 1's, Terminator HPOP
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-05-2013, 06:21 PM
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The fuel rail plugs are just 1/8" tapered pipe thread, so should come out fairly easily. I've never had an issue with one, other than them being in an awkward place to get at. An 8" crescent wrench properly tightened across the flats of the plug should do it easily. If that doesn't work, vice grips (also properly tightened - it should be an effort on the release lever to get them to let go) work well.

Be careful when installing the FrX fittings after taking the plugs out. If you get them too tight, the head will crack, then you'll be up the proverbial creek. Use proper pipe dope and tighten them snugly, just enough so they don't leak.

First truck -- 1929 Model A Ford pickup, restored from ground up. Wish I still had it!
'99.5 F250 PSD Supercab LB 4x4, ZF-6 w/SB Con OFE, 3.73LS, Boost & pyro gauges, Swamps S175/146 injectors, DP 80 HP Econo PCM (classic version
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-05-2013, 07:19 PM Thread Starter
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>Be careful when installing the FrX fittings after taking the plugs out. If you get them too tight, the head will crack, then you'll be up the proverbial creek. Use proper pipe dope and tighten them snugly, just enough so they don't leak.

OH ****!
I tightened these Frx fittings way too much, like until it was fully in the head. When will I learn?!
Anyway, no leaks but your comment about cracking the head makes me want to go hide under my bed. And the directions made no mention of pipe dope on the threads
Should I loosen these fittings now? Or take them out and get some dope on them?

1999 F350 DRW Long Bed Crew Cab 4x4
Carries 5000lb+ Lance Camper
DP Tuner chip w/ 60econ, 120race, decel, hi idle
Stancor Glow Plug Relay
VDO gauges
Ford AIS and zoodad mod
MagnaFlow 4" Exhaust and muffler
Bellowed Up Pipes from Int'l
John Wood Eco HD trans, 6.0 cooler and Maghytec tranny pan
Maghytec rear diff cover w/ Mobil 1 75W-140
Mobil 1 ATF in trans/transfer case/powersteering Magnafine filters for tranny and power steering
Airbags, KYB Monomax shocks, Torklift Swaystops, Roadmaster 1.5" Rear Sway Bar
CCV mod
TransferFlow 57 gallon fuel tank
Riffraff fuel and oil crossover
Strictly Diesel fuel tank/pre-pump kit
Air intake heater delete Max A/C assist Braided 4WD shift hoses, Replacement boots for all turbo/intercooler boots, Coolant filtration system, 203*F thermostat
2 layers Dynamat Extreme on interior roof/floor/doors, Dynamat Xorb on Firewall
Alpine IVA1000 and amp, Python Alarm
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-07-2013, 11:09 AM Thread Starter
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Hi KL,
What do you think about my above post? Should I loosen them up?
How often have you heard of these fittings cracking a head when tightened too much? --Unfortunately, mine have been tightened quite a bit :-(
Thanks

1999 F350 DRW Long Bed Crew Cab 4x4
Carries 5000lb+ Lance Camper
DP Tuner chip w/ 60econ, 120race, decel, hi idle
Stancor Glow Plug Relay
VDO gauges
Ford AIS and zoodad mod
MagnaFlow 4" Exhaust and muffler
Bellowed Up Pipes from Int'l
John Wood Eco HD trans, 6.0 cooler and Maghytec tranny pan
Maghytec rear diff cover w/ Mobil 1 75W-140
Mobil 1 ATF in trans/transfer case/powersteering Magnafine filters for tranny and power steering
Airbags, KYB Monomax shocks, Torklift Swaystops, Roadmaster 1.5" Rear Sway Bar
CCV mod
TransferFlow 57 gallon fuel tank
Riffraff fuel and oil crossover
Strictly Diesel fuel tank/pre-pump kit
Air intake heater delete Max A/C assist Braided 4WD shift hoses, Replacement boots for all turbo/intercooler boots, Coolant filtration system, 203*F thermostat
2 layers Dynamat Extreme on interior roof/floor/doors, Dynamat Xorb on Firewall
Alpine IVA1000 and amp, Python Alarm
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-07-2013, 01:55 PM
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If you don't have a crack at the port now, you're OK. If you loosen them up, you'll have to remove and reseal them with either pipe dope or teflon tape. I assume that you used teflon tape on them, which is not recommended by some, as bits of tape may get into the fuel system if it isn't installed correctly (not lapped over the end of the fitting).

If the fittings are softer steel than the cast iron of the heads, they probably gave in lieu of the port cracking. But if they're socked in all the way to the shoulder, the cast iron is under stress. It may relieve some as the engine heats up. If you do decide to take them out you might consider replacing them with new adapter fittings to be sure the threads aren't deformed excessively.

In your original post, you were talking about tigtening the JIC flare nut till it hit the adapter fitting. I don't think it should have to do that to seal. Again, JIC fittings just need to be tight enough to seal, and typically that's just snug.

The ORB fittings for the HP oil rail ports do contact the head, as they seal with the o-ring, but the fuel ports are tapered pipe threads that seal on the threads. For a 1/8" NPT fitting, it takes about two fingers pressure on a 6" wrench to get them tight enough to seal.

First truck -- 1929 Model A Ford pickup, restored from ground up. Wish I still had it!
'99.5 F250 PSD Supercab LB 4x4, ZF-6 w/SB Con OFE, 3.73LS, Boost & pyro gauges, Swamps S175/146 injectors, DP 80 HP Econo PCM (classic version
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-07-2013, 06:45 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks very much for the reply! Reading it, I realized I'd confused myself between the oil cross over and the fuel cross over install. It was the oil rail, ORB fittings I put it quite tight --as in screwing it in until the nut was on the head-- not the fuel rail fitting. I did put the fuel rail fitting in tighter than you would have but don't think they're too tight. I'll inspect the head around the fitting and check.
That whole concept of installing a relatively benign, after market mod and then finding out you've cracked your heads in the process .....well, those are things that occasionally befall me in my sometimes ocd drive to do things on my truck. Might be good if there was a warning in the instructions about cracking the head with too much torque on those fittings for people like me who don't (but should) know better.

1999 F350 DRW Long Bed Crew Cab 4x4
Carries 5000lb+ Lance Camper
DP Tuner chip w/ 60econ, 120race, decel, hi idle
Stancor Glow Plug Relay
VDO gauges
Ford AIS and zoodad mod
MagnaFlow 4" Exhaust and muffler
Bellowed Up Pipes from Int'l
John Wood Eco HD trans, 6.0 cooler and Maghytec tranny pan
Maghytec rear diff cover w/ Mobil 1 75W-140
Mobil 1 ATF in trans/transfer case/powersteering Magnafine filters for tranny and power steering
Airbags, KYB Monomax shocks, Torklift Swaystops, Roadmaster 1.5" Rear Sway Bar
CCV mod
TransferFlow 57 gallon fuel tank
Riffraff fuel and oil crossover
Strictly Diesel fuel tank/pre-pump kit
Air intake heater delete Max A/C assist Braided 4WD shift hoses, Replacement boots for all turbo/intercooler boots, Coolant filtration system, 203*F thermostat
2 layers Dynamat Extreme on interior roof/floor/doors, Dynamat Xorb on Firewall
Alpine IVA1000 and amp, Python Alarm
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-07-2013, 06:55 PM Thread Starter
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And BTW, I did put Gasolina dope on the FRx threads, it was the HPx install that I didn't use and thread dope on. man it's fortunate i don't do this for a living!

1999 F350 DRW Long Bed Crew Cab 4x4
Carries 5000lb+ Lance Camper
DP Tuner chip w/ 60econ, 120race, decel, hi idle
Stancor Glow Plug Relay
VDO gauges
Ford AIS and zoodad mod
MagnaFlow 4" Exhaust and muffler
Bellowed Up Pipes from Int'l
John Wood Eco HD trans, 6.0 cooler and Maghytec tranny pan
Maghytec rear diff cover w/ Mobil 1 75W-140
Mobil 1 ATF in trans/transfer case/powersteering Magnafine filters for tranny and power steering
Airbags, KYB Monomax shocks, Torklift Swaystops, Roadmaster 1.5" Rear Sway Bar
CCV mod
TransferFlow 57 gallon fuel tank
Riffraff fuel and oil crossover
Strictly Diesel fuel tank/pre-pump kit
Air intake heater delete Max A/C assist Braided 4WD shift hoses, Replacement boots for all turbo/intercooler boots, Coolant filtration system, 203*F thermostat
2 layers Dynamat Extreme on interior roof/floor/doors, Dynamat Xorb on Firewall
Alpine IVA1000 and amp, Python Alarm
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-07-2013, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farnorthdriver View Post
Thanks very much for the reply! Reading it, I realized I'd confused myself between the oil cross over and the fuel cross over install. It was the oil rail, ORB fittings I put it quite tight --as in screwing it in until the nut was on the head-- not the fuel rail fitting.
Sorry for the scare. I'll bet you were looking for the :wipeshead: smiley when you realized you hadn't screwed up that bad.

I agree that they should have something in the instructions cautioning you about the fuel ports. I believe that my ITP regulated return kit did have that, but being taught by my dad who was a plumber all his life, I know about pipe threads and didn't need it. There was the time I didn't get a gas line tight enough and wound up unscrewing the whole thing running around the house to get to the joint that leaked. That reinforced the lesson of tight, but not too tight.

First truck -- 1929 Model A Ford pickup, restored from ground up. Wish I still had it!
'99.5 F250 PSD Supercab LB 4x4, ZF-6 w/SB Con OFE, 3.73LS, Boost & pyro gauges, Swamps S175/146 injectors, DP 80 HP Econo PCM (classic version
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