Intercooler upgrade - Page 2 - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
'99 & up Upgrades and Aftermarket - 7.3L Engine Upgrading or adding OEM or aftermarket equipment to your 1999-Up Super Duty or Excursion with 7.3L Power Stroke diesel engine. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 7.3L Power Stroke engine.

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post #16 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-24-2018, 08:40 PM Thread Starter
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It's understandable to want to see the EGTS of the "whole" engine, rather than just one bank. What if there is a problem in the right passenger cylinder bank, and you only have a probe in the left driver's bank? The right bank could be melting pistons, and you'd never know until the block windowed. So, your point of view makes sense. So does your mental math, where it is clear that you are adding another 300F mentally to your post turbo EGT gauge readings, where if the rule of thumb max exhaust manifold EGT's pre turbo is 1,300 F, you are limiting your push to just 1,000.

Still, 1,000F post turbo, "real quick", and "unloaded" at that... is rather high, even in high altitude. A new intercooler of the same size will not fix that. Not even the Hypermax Tapercore, at $1,775.00, which is inarguably the quintessential "intercooler upgrade" for the 7.3L, and which is undoubtedly the largest intercooler that will fit between the frame rails of a 99' up Super Duty, has enough additional surface area to bring that 1,000F down to something in the range of 600 post turbo unloaded. If the stock intercooler rejects 200 degrees, and the HyperMax TaperCore flows 30% more than stock, and for the sake of simplicity we ignore reality and blindly assume a direct correlation between an increase in flow through intercooler and an increase in heat rejected, then maybe we might see a 260 degree reduction in compressed combustion air temperatures.


Don't get me wrong, I'll take that 60 degree reduction... but I'm looking for a 400 degree EGT reduction. I know that the 60 degree reduction in intake air is not a direct number to number correlation, because the real benefit of a better intercooler is an increase in oxygen density per volumetric unit of air ingested, and the denser oxygen content will be a better match for all the fuel you are pouring in the cylinders with the Full Force single shots, tuning, high flow banjo bolts, bored out check valves, etc. And thinking about all that fuel... that would appear to me to be where the EGT problem is.


Yet, dialing back fuel may not be the only solution. Just because a person wants to lose weight doesn't mean they have to give up ice cream. There is obviously a reason you went through all the trouble to make sure your cylinders got plenty of fuel. The question of how much of that fuel is making power, and how much is being wasted in heat, afterburning in the exhaust manifold, and exiting the tailpipe as smoke is immaterial if you want ice cream once in a while.


So the questions that came to my mind when I read 1,000 degrees unloaded are:


1. What is your tire size?

2. What is your rear axle ratio?

3. What is your rpm when you hit 1,000 F "real quick" when unloaded?

4. Can you drop a gear when that happens?

5. Is your tire size and rear axle ratio putting you in a non optimal "automatic" shifting range for high altitude gear climbing?



Which brings us back to the location of your pyrometer probe post turbo... It is also "reading" the amount of heat that was converted to mechanical energy to spool the turbine. Yet that reading is muddied by both the volume of gas flow, and the velocity of gas flow, through that turbo. When you are unloaded, the exhaust flow is likely a lot less than when you are loaded, and in that case, the temperature differential between pre and post turbo pyros could be as much as 500F.


The variation in gas flow volumes and velocities through the turbo could be why people report that post turbo EGT probes are not as "accurate" or as "consistent" as pre turbo pyros. And if, in your case, there is 500 degree differential between pre and post turbo EGTs under some part throttle or unloaded conditions, where you were previously relying on a 300 degree rule of thumb difference, then at 1,000 F gauge reading, could you be pouring 1,500 degrees onto the tender tips of your turbine, turning the thin corners of the blade edges into a plasma that eventually vaporizes into the exhaust stream, leaving you with an unbalance wheel that takes out the ball bearing cartridge of your non rebuildable 38r? Ok, now I'm just fearmongering, not really helping.


I think if you are running a tire over 32" in diameter, you will need to manage your own shifting with your 4R100, no matter how built up it is. Do whatever it takes to elevate your engine rpms between 2250 to 2650 (the "50"s are just random additions to make this advice sound more credible), and that will be a much more immediate (and cheaper) way to reduce runaway EGTs on those hill climbs.... that is, assuming that you haven't already pulled that trick out of your already well worn hat, given that you live in the mountains.


If you are already gearing down to get the rpms screaming, then the questions turn back to the tailpipe. How much smoke? Tune the fueling back? Too much ice cream?


A new intercooler, however, would be much further down on the list of things to do. And if you do decide on an intercooler, most of them are simply lateral steps... to solve cracking or blown off plastic end tanks. I have a Banks intercooler on my truck... with high flow, smooth radius, solid cast aluminum end tanks. I'm not fond of plastic. But I'm not delusional to believe that a smoother flowing intercooler of only slightly larger size than OEM will reject so much more heat as and increase that much more air density so as to make a 400 degree difference in EGTs.


Yet if you are going to go all out, then get the Tapercore. No other intercooler on the market is larger, and the physics of a larger heat exchanger can be expected to have the capacity to reject more heat. The only issue for me many years ago was, the Tapercore intersects with the transmission cooler, whereas the OEM and Banks and I assume the Mishimoto intercoolers all terminate above the (stock and slightly larger V10) oil to air transmission cooler. Thus, I beleived the efficacy the OTA tranny cooler could be compromised. But that issue doesn't effect you, because you are running a 6.0L OTA transmission cooler (which wasn't invented at the time I installed a V10 cooler), and which is so much taller, it intersects with the OEM intercooler as it is. The Tapercore won't add much more of an insult to that injury, and experience has shown that the intersection of the heat exchangers hasn't cause measurable injuries anyway.


My tire size is stock 265 75 R16
Gear ratio is the 3.73 LS
The rpm is around 1800 I know is low but when I shift to raise rpm it drops fast but to hold 60 mph it hovers around 900 on the TS Chip but on my hydra it would sit 800 unloaded in a light tow tune so I have gained some ground so from all the input for you all I think the best way to go is adjust waste gate have the tunes adjusted and move my pyrometer to the manifold.


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post #17 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-24-2018, 11:48 PM
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I would hold off on having the tunes readjusted for the moment.

Not too sure about wastegate adjustment effecting egts that much but it's an easy adjustment to see what happens.

It would definitely be helpful to you and us to have an egt probe pre turbo. You could add a second gauge or move it, your choice.

With the injectors you have, i wouldn't think your egts would be that bad.

I say get pyro probe pre turbo, adjust wastegate and go from there.

Before my injector/turbo upgrade I have in my sig, i used to have egt issues and ran dp tunes. I fought for a long time trying to figure it out. I also was getting poor fuel mileage but everyone kept saying 12mpg for my dually was about right.

I finally got everything figured out after many headaches and countless hours of checking things out/test drives, etc.

My truck seemed to run fine but i just always had a feeling about mileage and egts. I think after rechecking 100 times, i finally found a small leak from the up pipes to turbo and switched to php tunes. After this, i could floor my truck as long as i wanted in the 140 tune and never go over 1250 deg.

Fuel fix i think was from some sensors. I replaced ebps, icp, ipr, etc. Not sure what actually fixed my mileage but i was then getting 14-15 cty, 17-18 hwy...when previously I would get oly 12 no matter what.

I had a turbonetics turbo at that time with wastegate pinned shut so it could never open.

Anyway, this is why i asked how it ran. There could be a leak you are not finding (i didn't thinki had a leak either but i did checked over and over). I don't know how 1023 tunes are. If they are aggressive like dp tunes, that could have a lot to do with it too.

What kind of boost can you get with your setup?
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post #18 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-25-2018, 12:13 AM Thread Starter
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I would hold off on having the tunes readjusted for the moment.



Not too sure about wastegate adjustment effecting egts that much but it's an easy adjustment to see what happens.



It would definitely be helpful to you and us to have an egt probe pre turbo. You could add a second gauge or move it, your choice.



With the injectors you have, i wouldn't think your egts would be that bad.



I say get pyro probe pre turbo, adjust wastegate and go from there.



Before my injector/turbo upgrade I have in my sig, i used to have egt issues and ran dp tunes. I fought for a long time trying to figure it out. I also was getting poor fuel mileage but everyone kept saying 12mpg for my dually was about right.



I finally got everything figured out after many headaches and countless hours of checking things out/test drives, etc.



My truck seemed to run fine but i just always had a feeling about mileage and egts. I think after rechecking 100 times, i finally found a small leak from the up pipes to turbo and switched to php tunes. After this, i could floor my truck as long as i wanted in the 140 tune and never go over 1250 deg.



Fuel fix i think was from some sensors. I replaced ebps, icp, ipr, etc. Not sure what actually fixed my mileage but i was then getting 14-15 cty, 17-18 hwy...when previously I would get oly 12 no matter what.



I had a turbonetics turbo at that time with wastegate pinned shut so it could never open.



Anyway, this is why i asked how it ran. There could be a leak you are not finding (i didn't thinki had a leak either but i did checked over and over). I don't know how 1023 tunes are. If they are aggressive like dp tunes, that could have a lot to do with it too.



What kind of boost can you get with your setup?


I will check all my intercooler boots and up pipes for leaks. My set up with 1023 in the daily tune makes 27 boost and in the street tune the truck will hit 35 plus this tune is aggressive. Smoke out put cleans up great once the turbo builds boost it is a light haze out the pipe.


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post #19 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-25-2018, 08:59 AM
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If you are running at 1800 with a heavy load under heavy throttle, your EGT is probably as good as it's going to get. You are using torque to produce the HP you need. You need to use RPM to produce it.

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post #20 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-25-2018, 01:17 PM
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there's an old familiar name


well, if you are hitting 25-35 lbs of boost, I would say your wastegate should be ok, but wouldn't hurt to still check it.

just need to get pyro probe pre-turbo so we can see what you are really running at.

Just out of curiosity, with your tunes.... does all your power come from the 1st 1/2 of your pedal. more past 1/2 pedal, etc?

when I had DP tunes all power came from the first part of the pedal. It was so sensitive that if you were idling along and hit a bump it would buck a bit. after 1/2 throttle there was no improvement on power just egt's, etc. If most of your power is in the 1st half of the pedal, it could possibly be your tuning that is helping your egt's run higher.

My current setup has never been fully dialed in and I feel my egt's are high but I'm running 250/100 injectors and a bigger turbo.

as far as my tuning goes though, It's more driver friendly and I think of it more like a 4barrel carb. I can easily drive it with a nice steady increase in power or I can get into it more when I need/want to. I'm not sure how to describe it. I just think it's how a truck should be rather than more of an on off switch in the first half of the pedal. I feel when all the power is provided early on it makes the truck too sensitive and not driver friendly.
Some people love that feel, makes them feel like they have more power.

You could also talk to 1023 about what is going on and see if they think readjusting the tunes will help.

Do you own Autoenginuity? they may ask you to run it and look at certain things, IDK. I'd really like to see what your pre-turbo temps are

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post #21 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-26-2018, 09:41 AM Thread Starter
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there's an old familiar name





well, if you are hitting 25-35 lbs of boost, I would say your wastegate should be ok, but wouldn't hurt to still check it.



just need to get pyro probe pre-turbo so we can see what you are really running at.



Just out of curiosity, with your tunes.... does all your power come from the 1st 1/2 of your pedal. more past 1/2 pedal, etc?



when I had DP tunes all power came from the first part of the pedal. It was so sensitive that if you were idling along and hit a bump it would buck a bit. after 1/2 throttle there was no improvement on power just egt's, etc. If most of your power is in the 1st half of the pedal, it could possibly be your tuning that is helping your egt's run higher.



My current setup has never been fully dialed in and I feel my egt's are high but I'm running 250/100 injectors and a bigger turbo.



as far as my tuning goes though, It's more driver friendly and I think of it more like a 4barrel carb. I can easily drive it with a nice steady increase in power or I can get into it more when I need/want to. I'm not sure how to describe it. I just think it's how a truck should be rather than more of an on off switch in the first half of the pedal. I feel when all the power is provided early on it makes the truck too sensitive and not driver friendly.

Some people love that feel, makes them feel like they have more power.



You could also talk to 1023 about what is going on and see if they think readjusting the tunes will help.



Do you own Autoenginuity? they may ask you to run it and look at certain things, IDK. I'd really like to see what your pre-turbo temps are


I will get the pyro moved I hope this week / weekend to driver side I have a hole other gauge so I may set it up and compare pre and post turbo temps. As far as power the 3 tow tunes I have the power comes on even though the rpm range. The daily tune you get a lot more after 1/2 throttle and the street tune comes on early and a little more after half throttle. I do not have autoenginuity yet it is on my list but I do have a scangauge2 witch I do like.


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Use the scan gauge to monitor icp and duty cycle under load

99.5 f250 7.3 4x4- 277k FF 160/30, Hydra w/SDK Tunes, S&B CAI, 4" Exhaust, Van turbo w/Riffraff Billet wheel, Autometer Gauges, Built Trans, Trucool Max, 08 Tow Mirrors.


Dads-2000 f250 7.3 4x4- 118k K&N Intake w/Amsoil Filter, 4" Exhaust, Autometer Gauges, Superchip 1705 (Tow Safe), BD Billet Wheel, TruCool Max, 08 Tow Mirrors.
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post #23 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-08-2018, 08:31 PM
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any updates?

I talked to Dusty and also placed an order to check out their tunes. According to what Dusty tells me about their tunes; the tunes shouldn't be the issue of high egt's. a little off topic but i am going to try 1023, SDK, and gearhead tunes.


I have autoenginuity but not sure when I would have time to meet up or try to help. It would also be nice to see what is going on with the truck in person once the egt probe is moved to the correct position.

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No update yet I have been busy working on other cars and trucks I have not had time do do my truck.


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post #25 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-16-2018, 07:20 PM Thread Starter
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Ok got the pyrometer moved to the drive side manifold so I will update in the next few days.


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post #26 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-28-2018, 03:07 AM
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any updates?
I have a bunch of new stuff so I can work on getting my truck where i'd like it to be.

I just got my hydra with 1023 and SDK tunes. I still have to load up my GearHead tunes among some older tunes from various people. I haven't had much time to really check out the 1023 or SDK tunes yet. It's hard to describe the differences compared to my PHP tunes.

the 1023 and SDK tunes seem much weaker on the bottom end but the truck still gets up and goes along with the egt's getting way up there. Granted I am running 250/100 injectors compared to what you have and a t4 based turbo (a little bit bigger than your 38R).

I think the correct way to say it is that the 1023 has a much more linear/flat curve to the tuning, SDK I need more time but i think is slightly more aggressive than 1023 but still nothing like my PHP tunes. Even at our altitude 6500ft here in the Springs, my PHP 80 daily tune will throw you back in the seat and light up my 4 rear tires without spooling. 1023 and SDK tunes are much more conservative on the bottom end. Maybe because i have PMR's or maybe that is just how they tune; I'm not currently sure.

I'm definitely curious what your new egt temps are. I have also noticed with the extra wind lately my cruising temps will run around 800-900deg at 55-60. Normally on a good day they run around 500 or so, unless the wind is behind me (which is rare) then I am at 400-450 deg.

Hope you had a good Christmas and Happy new year if i don't chat with you before then.



Not sure how you feel about it or if it's the right choice, but If everything is in order with your truck and you have high egt's, then maybe a water/meth kit (I think they are called) would possibly be a better investment to reduce egt's?

Sometimes I feel like a chipped stock injected truck with intake and exhaust is the best option...however it's not nearly as fun.

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post #27 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-28-2018, 09:59 AM Thread Starter
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any updates?

I have a bunch of new stuff so I can work on getting my truck where i'd like it to be.



I just got my hydra with 1023 and SDK tunes. I still have to load up my GearHead tunes among some older tunes from various people. I haven't had much time to really check out the 1023 or SDK tunes yet. It's hard to describe the differences compared to my PHP tunes.



the 1023 and SDK tunes seem much weaker on the bottom end but the truck still gets up and goes along with the egt's getting way up there. Granted I am running 250/100 injectors compared to what you have and a t4 based turbo (a little bit bigger than your 38R).



I think the correct way to say it is that the 1023 has a much more linear/flat curve to the tuning, SDK I need more time but i think is slightly more aggressive than 1023 but still nothing like my PHP tunes. Even at our altitude 6500ft here in the Springs, my PHP 80 daily tune will throw you back in the seat and light up my 4 rear tires without spooling. 1023 and SDK tunes are much more conservative on the bottom end. Maybe because i have PMR's or maybe that is just how they tune; I'm not currently sure.



I'm definitely curious what your new egt temps are. I have also noticed with the extra wind lately my cruising temps will run around 800-900deg at 55-60. Normally on a good day they run around 500 or so, unless the wind is behind me (which is rare) then I am at 400-450 deg.



Hope you had a good Christmas and Happy new year if i don't chat with you before then.







Not sure how you feel about it or if it's the right choice, but If everything is in order with your truck and you have high egt's, then maybe a water/meth kit (I think they are called) would possibly be a better investment to reduce egt's?



Sometimes I feel like a chipped stock injected truck with intake and exhaust is the best option...however it's not nearly as fun.


Got some new numbers but not to much but in my daily eco tune the temps run 750 at 65 70 mph if I try a full throttle pull temps get 1250 fast and even worse in my street shredder tune it is was hot so my 38r canít keep up and this is on a 50 degree day so. I have been talking with KC Turbo and I am looking at getting his 63/73 ball bearing turbo https://www.facebook.com/KCTurbos/po...40014902876744 here a link he sent me on it and said it ran cooler than a 38r so. I am going to have my tunes ruched up and see if we can get them a little better. The 180/30 injectors I have I like but I should of went 160/30 but I wanted more power.


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post #28 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-28-2018, 12:48 PM
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The Donaldson intake help the air flow a lot on my truck it has two air in let's. One in factory location and one in the fender. I added it when I installed bellowed down pipe and 4 in. exaust. I saw close to 400 degree drop in exaust temp. I also did a few other miss at the same time

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post #29 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-31-2018, 08:07 AM
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The Donaldson intake help the air flow a lot on my truck it has two air in let's. One in factory location and one in the fender. I added it when I installed bellowed down pipe and 4 in. exaust. I saw close to 400 degree drop in exaust temp. I also did a few other miss at the same time
I don't think the Donaldson will keep up with the 180cc injectors. I ditched my intake for an S&B because I needed more airlfow for my 160cc injectors.

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2003 F-250 7.3L PSD FX4 CCSB, Dual Alternators - 160/80 SS, T500, FRx, 6.0 IC & TC (w/Derale), S&B, RR 4/4 Wheel, EBPV-less, RR OCR, IH Up-Pipes, Hydra (PHP & GH), ISSPRO Gauges, FTVB, 4" MBRP, H&H, Racor PS120, 140A Alternators, North Stars, Dynatrac, XRF, ATS Springs
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post #30 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-03-2019, 01:03 AM
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Not sure what donaldson you are talking about, but they will keep up with my 250/100's just fine. even my napa 6637 did just fine with my 250/100s. I honestly think my bottom end felt stronger with the 6637 vs the AFE Big boost BHAF. I'm not much into cleaning filters, so I plan to just run the Donaldson Blue's now.

I also seriously doubt that ole Tex saw a 400deg drop from an air filter as well. I don't see any help from a good breathing filter over stock as far as egt's. If there is a difference, it's minor and i'm sure the op has a decent filter so that is most likely not the case for his high egt's.

as mentioned before, many do not realize what our altitude does to everything. we have way less power and much higher egt's that get up there much quicker. a stock chipped truck within 500ft or so from sea level can easily roast the tires from a dead stop. at our elevation that isn't happening too easily. I am pushing around 500hp or so with safe tunes for pmr's and it is still hard to break the tires loose from a dead stop and not spooling up at all.

Several years ago when i went to Brian's Truck Shop to get my tranny rebuilt, we stopped in Memphis to see Elvis. I had to dart out across several lanes of traffic to get into the lanes going the direction we needed. I hammered down to get out there and My crewcab dually just lit up the tires on my daily tune. This applies to any vehicle gas or diesel. Near sea level makes a world of difference in the way vehicles perform compared to 5000-6500+ft elevations.

enough rambling and being off topic...
I hope the OP can get his truck where he wants it to be. Not so sure the KC turbo is the right answer, but I hope it helps

03 F350 7.3L Auto CC LB Dually 410's (LS Rear)

PHP/Beans, 1023, SDK, GH tuned/250/100 FF inj's, Irate T4 w/369SXE, Swamps HVHF IDM, BTS Tranny, Strictly Diesel complete fuel system with RR & FB delete.
Autometer Nexus Guages, 4"MBRP, DieselSite Coolant filtration system/billet housing/HP X-Over line. Donaldson Blue(6637)/AFE BHAF, RR Boots/ Billet Plenums, ('06) 26 row Tranny & PS Cooler, LarryB's Genuine Denso Starter
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  Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com > 1999-2007 Ford Super Duties > '99 & up Upgrades and Aftermarket - 7.3L Engine

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