larger injector vs larger nozzles? - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
'99 & up Upgrades and Aftermarket - 7.3L Engine Upgrading or adding OEM or aftermarket equipment to your 1999-Up Super Duty or Excursion with 7.3L Power Stroke diesel engine. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 7.3L Power Stroke engine.

 
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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-21-2019, 07:32 AM Thread Starter
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larger injector vs larger nozzles?

What are the benefits of a larger volume injection with stock nozzles vs stock volume with a larger nozzle?
If I want to stay with split shots (only because of noise), what are my options without replacing turbo?

02 F250 CC 4x4 7.3 Lariat, 3.73 rears, DPTuner F5, WW2, IH UPs, Airdog+Frx, HPOilX, BanksMonster Exhaust, Centramatics, Gearvendor, Custom rear springs, [BTS!], 130k, Dieselsite 203, Eaton Truetrac. FYI- Blackout/2/3 all me! Can't get back into my original logins.
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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-21-2019, 03:00 PM
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Here is my thoughts on this and I am far from an expert.
If you stay with the stock volume injector you can only inject that amount of fuel no matter what size nozzle you go bigger with. So with a 140 cc injector at 2hp per CC you are going to max out at about 300 hp with the stock nozzle and your power will be in the lower rpm's. As you put the bigger nozzles in you will gain more power but at higher rpm's as you can inject that about of fuel in less time of rotation of the crank. As in less Pulse Width.
If you go with bigger injector volume as in a 180 cc injector you gain more hp because of the 2 hp/cc.
But you can start to run out of time to get it injected in time as in how much pulse width you can safely use.
Thats why you need to get bigger nozzles when you go to bigger volumes.
A 180/30 will be about as good as a 238/80 because of the 7 to 1 gain vs the 5 to 1 gain on the hybrid. Since the hybrid has less push behind it it needs a bigger hole to get the same volume in the same amount of time of injection Or pulse width.
But there is a lot more to it than this.
I have not done injectors yet in my 02 6spd manual yet as I am still undecided between which ones I want to go with yet. I have always wanted the 180/30 because mine is a tow rig only and I want fuel mileage a good pulling motor. But everyone tells me to go with the 238/80's if you are going to spend the money.
So then I think you should just go with the 250/100 and be done with it.

All the newer diesels go to higher injection pressures to be more efficient

02 F350 Lariet CCLB 4wd Dually 7.3 6sp M. 122,000 miles, Manual hubs and transfer case.
Stock as of yet. So far have bought
4" MBRA turbo back with muffler
GTP 38R BB turbo and WWII wheel and high flow housing, Non EBV pedestal, Adrenaline HPOP.
New IH up-pipes, Aluminum intake plenums, 203* Therm with aluminum housing, Boost relief valve, all new boots, FPRx and HPRx. Coolant and Trans Filter kits. Max AC Assist control Valve. 8 gauges,
Boost,Pyro,Fuel,HPOP,LPOP pressure. Water,Oil and Trans Temp. Need tunes and injectors yet.
03 26' CM 4 Horse trailer and 25' GN flat bed.

06 F-350 Lariet CCSB SRW 4wd Auto 6.0 78,000
miles. Atlas 80 with Ed's lifetime, Blue spring, MBRP 4" turbo back with muffler, Bully Dog for monitoring. So far no problems.
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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-23-2019, 04:46 AM Thread Starter
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So if I want to maintain the low rpm power band, but want more hp and tq, then I need both a larger injector and a corresponding larger nozzle but not oversized for that volume?
My goal is <2400 rpm range with peak tq around 1900 rpm. I don't want to spin this big motor any faster than necessary.
Thoughts? Comments?
I'd really like to try singles but am very concerned with the noise.

02 F250 CC 4x4 7.3 Lariat, 3.73 rears, DPTuner F5, WW2, IH UPs, Airdog+Frx, HPOilX, BanksMonster Exhaust, Centramatics, Gearvendor, Custom rear springs, [BTS!], 130k, Dieselsite 203, Eaton Truetrac. FYI- Blackout/2/3 all me! Can't get back into my original logins.
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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-23-2019, 07:26 PM
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It’s not recommended to get larger nozzles on split shots

The stock hpop can’t maintain icp

So the potential 30hp comes at a price. Tons of smoke, hpop can’t keep pressure up, high egts

If you want torque you need to keep small nozzles.

160/0 only have 20-40 ft lbs less of torque than a 160/100.

If your running stock turbo, stock hpop, stock fuel, stock trans get a 160/0 MAX

I have 160/30 and had 2 major trans failures within 5k miles. The stock turbo couldn’t keep up. 40 psi boost 1500 degree egts.
(Only 3.7ms tune)

If you want 450+Hp expect to spend 12-15k in supporting mods

99.5 f250 7.3 4x4- 277k FF 160/30, Hydra w/SDK Tunes, S&B CAI, 4" Exhaust, Van turbo w/Riffraff Billet wheel, Autometer Gauges, Built Trans, Trucool Max, 08 Tow Mirrors.


Dads-2000 f250 7.3 4x4- 118k K&N Intake w/Amsoil Filter, 4" Exhaust, Autometer Gauges, Superchip 1705 (Tow Safe), BD Billet Wheel, TruCool Max, 08 Tow Mirrors.
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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-23-2019, 09:45 PM
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And unfortunately these v8’s need to spin rpms to make power/build boost/drop Egts.

You can do some upgrades and run a decent tune to get more low end but still have to spin some rpms

If you want a low Revving truck a Cummins has that power band.

99.5 f250 7.3 4x4- 277k FF 160/30, Hydra w/SDK Tunes, S&B CAI, 4" Exhaust, Van turbo w/Riffraff Billet wheel, Autometer Gauges, Built Trans, Trucool Max, 08 Tow Mirrors.


Dads-2000 f250 7.3 4x4- 118k K&N Intake w/Amsoil Filter, 4" Exhaust, Autometer Gauges, Superchip 1705 (Tow Safe), BD Billet Wheel, TruCool Max, 08 Tow Mirrors.
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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-23-2019, 11:35 PM
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Check out this video. Pretty decent explanation of the "How's and why's"...



Also, if you want more power, you need more fuel AND more air. No point in bigger injectors without the support of a turbo capable of supplying additional air. It's sort of a package deal...

If you want best performance (IMO) you must forgo the worry of a little extra noise (I mean... it's a diesel! They sound BEAUTIFUL!) and go with the single-shot's. You just won't get the performance you want from splits (at least with the HUEI's). Different story with common-rail piezoelectric injectors, where you can have multiple injections per injection event. But with HEUI's, the singles work best [for performance]. Split-shot was developed as an emissions fix, and to decrease idle noise, but at the expense of performance.





~Al

Al in SoCal
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Bellowed S/S Up-pipes; 4" Turbo-back Custom Exhaust into Twin Stacks
SouthBend D-D Clutch; ZF 6-spd w/CoreShifters Short-throw Stick
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Last edited by Calico5; 01-23-2019 at 11:47 PM.
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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-25-2019, 09:47 AM Thread Starter
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Wow!, thanks for the education. I have to do some thinking of what I actually need out of this vehicle.

02 F250 CC 4x4 7.3 Lariat, 3.73 rears, DPTuner F5, WW2, IH UPs, Airdog+Frx, HPOilX, BanksMonster Exhaust, Centramatics, Gearvendor, Custom rear springs, [BTS!], 130k, Dieselsite 203, Eaton Truetrac. FYI- Blackout/2/3 all me! Can't get back into my original logins.
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